Poor quality affiliates

[Brains]

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Being fairly new to the affiliate arena (having always used paid media advertising) I am somewhat surprised by the number of poor quality affiliates....(let me make it clear that those in this forum have been excellent!!)....BUT, I am somewhat taken aback by the number of affiliates with extremely poor websites, lack of traffic etc.

What are the best networks for good affiliates?

A lot of the affiliate networks seem to delight in saying who they have as a new merchant yet seldom, if ever, announce what they are doing to attract quality affiliates. I see merchants coming and going all the time on some networks...real shame.

Lets see some of those bucks spent on attracting more quality affiliates...everyone wins.

Any comments?


BRAINS

[Jacqui]

As a beginner to this affiliate business, can I point out that it takes a little time to find out what works, and you only learn from experience.
I have learnt a lot from this forum, but every case is different and what works for one site won't work for another.
This years poor website could be a mine of learning experiences for it's owner and next year be a big earner.

[Mogga]

Do affiliate clicks convert better than your natural SEO traffic? How many sales do you get % wise from affiliates?


Do you have a hints list on how to convert traffic well?

[morleymouse]

poor quality affiliates might not always be poor quality.

ignore them at your own risk.

What are the best networks for good affiliates?

good affiliates will be on all or at least most. once an affiliate starts making money with say TD they realise what an affiliate link looks like and gets the idea behind it. they then search for other networks or look at links before clicking and find the networks that way.

[Aquanuke]

Whats your affiliate program?

Not to be rude but it might be your program is just not attracting the better affiliate.

[Brains]

Maybe this has been misinterpreted.

This is not a slur on affiliates on the network. I've just got the balls to say what I think many merchants are thinking. It's directed at the need for netoworks to start devoting resources to attracting quality affiliates. I support every 'newby' out there. We have all been in that position once (or twice!)

Look at it yourself. How many networks drive new merchants to the network for these only to fall off after a couple of months i.e. lack of good quality traffic/conversions. (I realise there are lots of reasons but read on)

There are superb affiliates on this forum but these are few and far between. I would expect a good network to be able to drive several hundred affiliates to a program. After all a merchant is paying for a service. No doubt some do. BUT how many actively seek affiliates in the same way that they actively seek merchants? Be honest here! Just type in 'affiliate' in Google under UK sites and read the blurb for some networks. Does this suggest merchants or affiliates?!?! (Congrats AF)

Let's not beat about the bush here. Some networks 'suggest' they have a large number of merchant programs but these are duplicated across many areas. I've no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is those networks who find it more beneficial to attract merchants and promote them via (well, some of the topics on other forums answer this one!)....when an equally(?debatable?) prioritised amount of effort should be spent attracting new affiliates.

MOGGA....in answer to your question: I have around a 98% - 2% breakdown on paid 'v' affiliate advertising. But hey, I'm not in this for the short term....I realise that affiliate programs take time to develop and will spend time working at this. The SEO took long enough. My point is that a lot of money is attracted through 'set-up' fees, admin fees, overrides etc. When do the networks ever contact a merchant and offer support/advise/direction? How many merchants have 'given up' on the affiliate route after only a couple of months? How many have actively received help from networks? Let me just say that the support I have received, thus far, has been good. However, I have had contact with several networks and NOT been impressed.

MORLEYMOUSE - 'little Johnny' in his bedroom out to make a quick buck is not in the same position as many of you. Again, back to my point about the keyword 'affiliate' on Google. Don't get me wrong....I started out with a ZX80 many years go..anyone remember them....build it yourself...£49 B&W job (if I remember correctly)

Any merchants out there with opinions?

I have a lot of business interests and not one has been approached as an affiliate but many have been as a merchant. Need I say more?

BRAINS

[Brains]

AQUANUKE - Its not my affiliate prgramme I am bothered about. I am happy just to receive the traffic. It all makes money for me. As a generally decent guy I see so many programs come and go. Lets take, for example, a new merchant Y selling X. A few affiliates decide to promote merchant Y - great.

The network happily takes a setup fee (sometimes rather large), a monthly 'management' fee and override (depends on the network I know). Now....my point is I suppose.....how many merchants actually approach other sites linked with 'X' (either a site interested in X or other) to actually actively (edit) promote merchant Y who actually sells X?


Clear?

BRAINS

[drivetowin]

Interesting thread - my 2ps worth

Firstly, despite what some (most) networks will tell you, there simply aren't hundreds of good (if by good you mean high earning) affiliates out there - I personally would rank it at no more than 150 max across the whole UK spectrum - and then add on another couple of hundred who might make an average merchant a sale every month or two and then the multitude who will make a sale once in a blue moon.

As a merchant and an affiliate I would say that any merchant who expects to see a clear return from their affiliate programme within a couple of months has been poorly educated by the network sales people - I think any programme has to be given at least six months and preferably at least twelve before any real judgements can be made.

I would agree with you that most networks are very merchant focused (one in particular is imho far too merchant focused to the detriment of their affiliates) and undoubtedly the set up fees are a big factor in this decision - though you also have to remember that a network with a broad range of merchants is far more attractive to your average affiliate too than a network with only a handful.

Communication is a two way (or I believe in our case a three way street - merchant -> network, network -> affiliate and affiliate <-> merchant

I think you're right in that maybe networks should do more to try to attract high quality affiliates to new merchant programmes but it also depends what you're promoting - take cd/dvd merchants as an example - I have two existing merchants who convert extremely well for me, so any new merchant coming along would have to convince me they really had something special for me to go to the trouble to add them to my sites whereas if a programme became available for cinema tickets (heavy hint to networks - I'd stick it on all of my sites like a shot..

A final thought, have you asked the network to help you find more quality affiliates - if you're with AF, which I think you are, the guys there will certainly try to help you recruit new affiliates

[Brains]

Good points KBUDDEN.

Let me make this really clear....this thread is NOT about my programs. It's about proactive marketing for affiliates....and by that I do not mean the 125 or so high rollers that you mention. I am seeing a few affiliates every day sign up. I saw a profit in the first month and had one affiliate making multiple sales per day.

When I managed an old program a year or so ago I linked in with high hit rate sites. Done the same with another site of mine over the last couple of months - Zero to 350,000 page views. (no SEO yet). As an affiliate and a merchant myself I am also looking at this from both views.

For example (and only an example!), if I have a site in a top position on a search engine for a particular theme....why have I not been approached by the networks to come on board as an affiliate? Surely if I occupy a top position(s) I am prime real estate for marketing. How many networks actively approach these top position sites?


BRAINS

[Idunno]

Surely if I occupy a top position(s) I am prime real estate for marketing. How many networks actively approach these top position sites?

I think you are hinting that you already know the answer to this question. Like you, networks rely on income to survive and that is merchants setup and management fees. I cant see any network owner paying a full time staff member to recruit just for affiliates that may or may not earn something for thei merchants. I dont think its as cost effective as merchant signups.

Its not my affiliate programme I am bothered about. I am happy just to receive the traffic.

Clearly you are worried... that is the point of this thread, is it not? Affiliates will always use networks for security and regular payments so you best pick the one you like the most and concentrate on recruitment of the quality you want yourself. You need to take a leaf out of some other very good affiliate managers handbooks. I cant imagine it is very easy managing an affiliate program and keeping hundreds of affiliates happy. If you want the best affiliates, you have to either be a name brand, or start thinking about building you own program strengths. You can start by helping these crap affiliates, they might be the ones that will be your best earner next year.

oh, and coming onto this forum and talking about poor quality affiliates is probably not a good promotional method for your program. My websites are pretty crap and I am a good earner for some merchants so you may be talking about me!... what was your program again?

[Brains]

Worried....no.

I spend £1000's each month on advertising so the monthly fee paid to the networks is peanuts.

I cant see any network owner paying a full time staff member to recruit just for affiliates that may or may not earn something for thei merchants

Why not....that's the whole reason they are in business is it not? Promote a merchant program. If they are not actively seeking affiliates then they are surely this is not a very forward looking business plan. Note that I also stated that they could be recruiting high traffic sites too as part of the recruitment drive.

oh, and coming onto this forum and talking about poor quality affiliates is probably not a good promotional method for your program

Oh come on... the whole point of a forum is to express an opinion. I've seen a lot of slating about some of the networks in these forums. I'll even say that my affiliate programs are in their infancy on the 2 sites I have been testing. But even as affiliates (me included) you should be asking why so many merchants drop off etc.

BRAINS

[morleymouse]

MORLEYMOUSE - 'little Johnny' in his bedroom out to make a quick buck...

thats me, but less of the little and ive been making this quick buck for the last 4 ish years (according to TDs monthly report)

regarding your 'recruiting affilates' thing, if a website is in a decent position for a term or keyword that can make any money chances are they would know. you dont accidently get #1 for 'credit cards'

also your saying networks should do this, hmm maybe, but I know merchants do this, well the ones that want to make a success anyway. I get emails asking if I would consider adding them to my sites and as long as the offer is good I generally will. And a merchant that emails me asking to be on the site is going to get a lot better position than just a merchant I picked up off a network merchant page, because they emailed it shows me there active and that there is actually soemone there looking at the program, searching on terms they think they want to be associated with etc

Ooo just remembered as well, ive had a network email me before asking if id consider promoting a merchant on a certain site! so some networks do, but possibly only out of what sites they already have listed with them as affiliates? then they match site categories to new merchants etc?

[Brains]

Cheers Dan

Looks like some marketing is done...should there be more?

I also actively seek affiliates for the programs I operate ... network and own... it's just a shame that some merchants come on board with networks, last a couple of months and then they are off again. I feel for these guys since when I started off I know how hard it was. Seems like some work needs to be done in this regard. I know 1 network that runs day courses...unsure about others.

Apart form the less formal get togethers (any excuse for a drink)....do affiliates and merchants get together in a workshop setting?

less of the little

I'm sure you're a man of stature!


Really enjoyed this thread.....lets have more

BRAINS

[Malcolm Cowley]

Hi

Great thread Brains - something I have been banging on about in meetings with prospective merchants for a while now.

It makes good business sense for a network to focus on such matters and not in a willy nilly advertising way - so i think adwords or something is a little unsophisticated but the premise is sound.

There are thousands of sites out there who wont even consider themselves affiliates yet who could deliver a good steady stream of sales or leads to a particular merchant.

You only have to look at programs like Figleaves and ASOS to see that having a dedicated person concerned with recruitment and growth of the affiliate program can produce some fantastic results.

I guess for some of the bigger networks they have such numbers of merchants to facilitate its must be hard for them to be able to do little more than the bare minimum in terms of growth and all efforts are spent just maintaining - not great news if you are paying a large monthly fee .

There are as Kbudden says maybe 200 - 300 top affiliates out there but I certainly dont know them all and neither does everyone else either and this I know for sure as I occasionally come across someone who becomes a decent earner for the network only to find that they have only ever worked with one merchant before independantly or they only used to use CPM and so on.

I think the big wins though are in the thousands of smaller niche sites that may deliver 10 - 15 sales a month for a merchant but times that by 100 sites and now your talking.

Networks at the moment don't do much at all in a structured way to facilitate the growth of programs with sites like this and a lot of emphasis is put onto ppc affiliates as its a quicker route and more manageable.

Brands attract affiliates and so heavily stocking up with programs is a good way to build your network in the early days - when this levels out a little then more intelligent methods of recruitment are needed.

What you discuss here in this thread is an area which certainly buy.at , now we have acheived some heavy forward momentum will look to foster more constructivley .

Good to see other people have picked up on this issue as well and hopefully by the end of the year from our camp at least the situation of new blood will look rosey indeed for the merchants we have on board and help buy.at establish itself as a different option to the supposed larger networks

Thanks

Mal

[Brains]

Mal...at last...someone has seen the point behind this thread.

There are thousands and thousands of sites out there who wont even consider themselves affiliates yet who could deliver a good steady stream of sales or leads to a particular merchant

This is what I mean. We as merchants and the networks should have strategies in place for making headway in this area. ASOS have done well.

I think the big wins though are in the hundreds and thoughsands of smaller niche sites that may deliver 10 - 15 sales a month for a merchant but times them by 100 and now your talking

Yep...it's a numbers game. Reminds me of the sales wheel we used to use many years ago when I was in finance. 50 prospects....20 calls....5 appointments....1 sale. The better you got the less prospects required. I suppose a similar model for merchants.

I look forward to seeing your developments at buy.at.

Any comments about affiliate/merchant workshops. Does this happen?

BRAINS