Auditing charitable sites donations??

[ChrisC]

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Hi

I've recently taken over as Affiliate Manager for Greenfingers.com & Petplanet.co.uk and have a few thoughts which I wonder if anyone can help with...

I've noticed a fair number of affiliates signing up to both sites that are offering donations to charity based on sales... is there anyway of auditing this (I guess the same applies to some of the 'cashback' sites too).. I've no problem with it in principle as long as the money is ending up where it's promised!

The other oddity I'm not sure about - mainly on Commission Junction, although there's a few on Aff.Window too... affiliates that sign up without a website specified - this makes me suspicious about email activity which could in the long run reflect badly on us .. again, any comments welcome (maybe I'm being too suspicious for my own good?)

Thanks in advance
Chris

[figleaf]

Hi Chris

Just wanted to say, very good post! I've been thinking about the exact same thing. I've tended to approve those who are raising funds for specific projects eg Schools or football teams, but those who claim to donate to 'your favourite charity' without any proof of how they do this, I'm a little sceptical of.

There certainly needs to be some accountability here, does anyone here work with charities and know how this might be managed? Perhaps a list of 'approved' sites who the charities have received a donation from might be in order?

Simon

[drivetowin]

Of course the sites should be paying the money over, that goes without saying but I'm slightly curious why to you as a merchant it really matters - after all if it were a normal affiliate you would be paying them the full amount of commission anyway - it's not like you're paying them a bonus for giving to charity - surely what the affiliate chooses to do with the commission they receive is their concern and no concern of the merchant.

What next - are you going to want to make sure every affiliate declares their income to the tax man too?

[hpops]

Of course the sites should be paying the money over, that goes without saying but I'm slightly curious why to you as a merchant it really matters - after all if it were a normal affiliate you would be paying them the full amount of commission anyway - it's not like you're paying them a bonus for giving to charity - surely what the affiliate chooses to do with the commission they receive is their concern and no concern of the merchant.

What next - are you going to want to make sure every affiliate declares their income to the tax man too?

Probably the only thing you've ever said that I disagree with Keith, if a partners business practices are, to be kind, suspect, then that rubs off on the retailer.
If I found that someone said that they were giving money to charity and they weren't - I wouldn't work with them - full stop.
Imagine a retailer saying that 2% of all purchases go to charity, and then it comes out that wasn't true - would we still promote them (we still get our commission)?

[ChrisC]

if a partners business practices are, to be kind, suspect, then that rubs off on the retailer.

My thoughts precisely.. hence my original post... if a site is declaring that proceeds go to charity they may be encouraging a shopper to buy through the affiliate in the assumption they are doing some 'good'.

I feel that affiliates should be treated as the merchant's 'front door' - it is afterall the first thing many customers see and if the message is misleading it does not reflect well on the merchant.

Glad to see I've started something throught provoking - look forward to more ideas on how to develop this!

C

[drivetowin]

Yeah, put that way I can see where you are coming from... wasn't thinking 100% earlier on.

[Mitchy]

Good post!

Agree on the point about charity donations Chris. I keep meaning to ask the networks whether they check them out at all when they join - but again, is there anyway to prove they are passing the earnings on?
Ive spoke to a couple of people who run fairly new sites on this principle, and they seem genuine - one was working closely with Age Concern I think.

Perhaps its worth a new thread where any Charity CashBack site can post their charity number, at least for some credibility?
This isnt to say that some or any sites aren't donating the money, it would just be good to have some way of checking. And just in case anyone had the bright idea of doing it as a con! - wouldnt reflect well on the other, genuine sites.

Hi
The other oddity I'm not sure about - mainly on Commission Junction, although there's a few on Aff.Window too... affiliates that sign up without a website specified - this makes me suspicious about email activity which could in the long run reflect badly on us .. Chris

Most are PPC affiliates. But what could they do with email activity that would refelect badly on you? Spamming?

Cheers

[ChrisC]

Good post!
Most are PPC affiliates. But what could they do with email activity that would refelect badly on you? Spamming?

Cheers

Basically yes.. we carry out a fair amount of email marketing inhouse and it would probably reflect badly on us if there was even more email activity, which could come under the 'spam' banner.. again just a bit of natural Scottish suspicion! Maybe totally unfounded

I just like to see what affiliates are up to really !

C

[hpops]

I just like to see what affiliates are up to really !

C

And theres the rub.....
Affiliates have very legitamate reasons for not wanting to reveal their methodologies (most old-timers have had at least one program rip their idea and do it themselves - or staff from a program/network do the same!)
Merchants have very legitmate reasons for wanting to understand what their affiliates do (ensuring they are legal, non-spam, representing them correctly)
And never the twain shall meet.
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
Not sure

[jonno]

Why not try contacting the affiliates direct and asking them?

At least if they are being dishonest they might think you're on to them and cease the activity. If not then you stand a chance of having a reasonable explanation to put this thing to bed with.

I know when I've raised money for charity in the past (not through affiliate marketing by the way) the charity quite often send a letter confirming that they've received the money and thanking me for the donation.

[figleaf]

Think the best thing to do would be to implement some terms for Charity sites. Perhaps they should supply;

Details of the charities they intend to donate to
Dates on which payments will be made
Copies of receipts available for inspection (unlikely that we would inspect but they should have them!)
Anything else?

Not sure you have to actually be registered in order to donate to a 3rd party organisation, but guess if they are collecting for their own cause, a reg no should be in order.

Some people might think this is OTT but I think it is very important this is policed one way or another.

Simon

[ChrisC]

Excellent suggestion Jonno and as the 'new' manager I've an ideal in to try and contact them...

email will be duly dispatched

Cheers
C

[drivetowin]

Dates on which payments will be made

Not sure how you'd do this one, it is more than likely that they will only make payment when their profits have reached a certain amount (and of course commissions have actually been paid by the networks).

Personally I would have thought that just asking to see receipts would be enough.

You're never going to get something 100% watertight, for example, assuming the affiliate promotes more than one merchant, you will have no way of knowing what percentage of your commissions have been paid to the charity - and this becomes even less traceable if the affiliate operates more than one site but only one site (for example) donates to charity.

[Mitchy]

Take it easy though Chris! Essentially you are asking 'are you lot lying?' - so play nice!

[Mitchy]

I would have thought that just asking to see receipts would be enough.
You're never going to get something 100% watertight....

I agree Keith. And to that extent, is there much point in checking anything at all with them?
Would be good to hear the networks p.o.v. - or even just an answer...do you check them at all? or just treat them as cashback sites?

If (huge IF!) it is occurring then its fraud, and even worse its ripping off charities and the people they support.
Offline example and the guy was still giving some of it to charity!

Cheers