Forum?

[missey]

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Definition of forum:

"A public meeting place for open discussion"

If this forum is putting restrictions on it's posters simply to stop a few getting irritated rather than for legal reasons (i.e. promoting a genuine business is not illegal as far as I am aware) then perhaps the word "forum" is a misrepresentation of the title.

Also members should be aware we are not all here to simply agree with each other on everything, so naturally there will be conflicts of ideas. Nothing wrong with that. However, it would be so much more civilised for people to stop whinging when someone says something they don't agree with rather than make petty remarks and bickering which becomes of 11 year olds in a playground.

Can someone give me a definitive reason why 2 tier+ affiliate plans are so "wrong"?

[missey]

It's been a long day - the above post was supposed to be under another thread somewhere, but I guess I pressed the wrong button.

[Shane]

yup I have to agree with ya both but drooper more...

a forum is an open place for discussion but a respectfull NO thanks we aint interested kinda closes that discussion methinks.

If I kick my dog evertime he walks up to me then how often is he going to keep walking up to me ? MLM has had bad press, very bad I never got burned but I know two people who did.

As soon as people mention MLM it's a conversation stopper in my experience, too many people got ripped off whilst the "ostrich farmers" and "vitamin retailers" rode the wave, collected more than $200 and did NOT go to jail (ok the ostrich farmer did I think...but no money came back)

Can someone give me a definitive reason why 2 tier+ affiliate plans are so "wrong"?

Nowt wrong with 2 tier programs that payout and don't disappear, but MLM has an habbit of doing just that.

so thanks but I will stick to network 2nd tiers.

[Mark Norville]

One thing what I cant understand. Pyramid schemes are mentioned all the time and yet affiliate schemes are not classed as such.

If affiliate marketing wasn`t a pyramid scheme then why do we have networks giving 5% of an reffered affiliate if it's not an pyramid scheme?

Network

Affiliate 1

Sub affiliates of affiliate 1,

Sub affiliates of affiliate 1 so literally the network (pyramid) is growing all of the time. The idea is to get as many people under you as possible so your earning from them.

Rock on 2nd tier, lifetime commissions and longer cookies.

[Shane]

erm

possibly because it doesnt rely on each member having to recruit new members to keep it going.

mlm is about introducing new memebers or you get paid nowt and the guy above you doesnt get's paid his slice of your slice of nowt and so on.

a network is about making sales, the merchant get's paid, the network gets paid and you get paid.

mlm is where the member pays their "fee" or buys their "product" you get a bung, the guy who introduced you gets a bung, the guy who introduced him get's a bung an so on to the top who basically get's a bung when anyone is introduced.

as soons saturation (or bad press) then no one else buys so the thing falls apart cos there is no influx of cash from new members.

so if you are at the top/higher level then MLM is the sweetest thing ever, if you are low to bottom level before saturation/bad press/arrests then what's the chance of you making your inital "fee" or recovering your (usually overpriced) "product" value back?

the are not viable.. there is a timescale with these, they are finite unless the are reselling the same thing but then you are paying over the odds for vitamins or kelp face packs just so you can keep your upline going and your downline is doing the same just to keep you going.... and as soon as the downline get's fed up of that then .... it all tumbles down again.



Me No likey MLM me likey day in day out, week in week out month in month out sales by real consumers who get a good deal and I get my slice of that

[Wardy]

Missey, we all know about "the amazing Tiscali program for £100 for 3 sales blah blah blah". We don't need you bringing this up in all or a great deal of your posts.
If anyone is to benefit from this program from people onthis forum then it should be Matt, and if I join (and I guess most will maybe be the same) it will be through Matt.

Cheers
Wardy

[KieronD]

Originally posted by drooper
I strongly discourage anyone from joining an mlm scheme and/or paying to join "associate" programmes.

A tad drastic I think. OK so you may have been burned by past experiences but don't let that blind you to some very lucrative network marketing opportunities out there.

I too thought that MLM programs were all dodgy until I actually took the time to thoroughly research the Tiscali Network a few months back. I'm not going to bang on about how great it is as it's up to each individual to decide if it's right for them. However I will tell you that it is one of my top 5 earners right now and in a few months time it will be generating more than enough residual income per month to pay all my outgoing bills such as mortage, utilities etc, etc. That is why I have joined and am promoting it hard.

Maybe some of you don't realise it but lots of top affiliates on these forums are members of MLM schemes and are doing very well out of it. It's not for me to say who they are or what they promote, I wouldn't dream of it. All I will say is that yes, there are some dodgy schemes out there but if you do your research you can spot the gems.

And as for anybody thinking of joining the Tiscali Network, I 100% agree with Wardy. Get in touch with Matt and sign up under him. After all without these forums we wouldn't be able to have such debates as this would we?

Kieron

[getvisible]

Mark - I think the difference is that with the majority of times with affilaite marketing you don't receive a bounty for recruiting a downline. With stuff like Amway, Kleeneze you may?

I'm in a dilema - I make good money in the UK from Adult programmes all products like sex toys etc. But in the US I make all my money from 2nd tier affiliates. The market is too big, I've got too much on in the UK and I just don't have time. So I've got some 2nd tier fellas earning me some cash :-)

The solution is to have a balance, not only epc, epa etc but also industries, regions and levels.

I've got the first two sorted (I earn from cpc and cpa, got sites covering a range of products and services) and I'm looking at the last. The regions is something I'm only starting to think off.

[loquax]

Perhaps an ideal and simple solution is to have a forum on a4uforum for MLM schemes so that these programs and schemes can be promoted/listed without infringing on the affiliate discussions.

Jason

[getvisible]

Originally posted by loquax
Perhaps an ideal and simple solution is to have a forum on a4uforum for MLM schemes so that these programs and schemes can be promoted/listed without infringing on the affiliate discussions.

Jason

that's good coz I expect only recruiters will visit it :-)

[KieronD]

Originally posted by loquax
Perhaps an ideal and simple solution is to have a forum on a4uforum for MLM schemes so that these programs and schemes can be promoted/listed without infringing on the affiliate discussions.

Jason

I think that's a great idea Jason. Personally I would love to hear more about what MLM schemes work as well as ones that don't. I'm all about spreading the risk and don't want to stick to CPA, CPC deals in everything I promote online, hence the interest in MLM.

Kieron

[Aquanuke]

MLM is Satan

Perhaps an ideal and simple solution is to have a forum on a4uforum for MLM schemes so that these programs and schemes can be promoted/listed without infringing on the affiliate discussions.

I would be extremely disappointed if this forum was used to promote MLM.. also very embarrassed to be associated with MLM.

Anyway isnt MLM illegal in the UK.

[missey]

MLM is not illegal but Pyramid Selling is and there is a big (often confused) difference.

Pyramid selling is where you are paid to recruit people and there is no real value "product". Obviously these schemes are doomed to failure as the recruits will get saturated and there will be no one to "pay" at the lower levels. However when you have a company with a product that gives value to a consumer paying a decent commission to the individuals making the sales, then obviously you can build a decent income WITHOUT having to recruit any other affiliates. i.e. it is NOT reliant on an ever increasing affiliate base.

A genuine MLM/Affiliate business (and I stick to my argument that affliations are nothing more then MLM in another name - manufacturer, merchant, network, affiliate = 4 levels of payout at least) has products that are of value to a consumer. Pretty clear really.

I am sorry for people who have been "burnt" in the past by having got involved in dodgy scams - but they must have missed the basic principle that you must have a product that offers a consumer value and hence want to purchase otherwise it is a pyramid scheme in disguise as opposed to a legitimate MLM business.

A few quotes from the DTI -

Trading schemes can be a legitimate opportunity for people to operate a business from home and are not illegal in the UK.

Trading schemes become illegitimate and illegal if, while purporting to offer business opportunities, the sole purpose of the scheme is to make money by recruiting other participants, rather than trading in goods or services. This form of bogus scheme is sometimes referred to as "pyramid selling".

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/pyramid.htm

Pretty much all products are sold via multi level marketing when you think about it anyway - take a quick example - a dvd.

Film maker makes a fillm, gets a DVD manufacturer to produce copies which are then resold to DVD distribution companies who resell to shops who sell to consumers - so one DVD sold at £15 pays at least 4 levels (usually more people get paid for every DVD sold, but this is just to illustrate the point). It's just about definitions. In a way it is a shame it is called MLM when associated with something like Tiscali as there are people who haven't properly looked at the principle and come to the wrong conclusion.

I hope this helps clarify things for people a little. At the end of the day, I would far prefer people to experience the benefits of MLM for securing a more long term income even if not via me. Feel free to find other Tiscali associates and sign up under them. As said, join under Matthew if you feel so inclined for allow the debate to take place.

[drivetowin]

Missey

Matt made a decision in the new forum rules (which everyone should have read as they are stickied at the top of the lounge) - that noone could promote membership of affiliate / mlm schemes through their own links.

I have no problem with Matt posting his own links as without his funding this forum would not exist for us all to benefit from..

I personally have no problem with you promoting your schemes and indeed I have signed up for the Tiscali scheme myself (though not through your links) and I have no problem with second tier commissions - though I take your point that they do compare a little with mlm - I think the main difference is that if someone joins an affiliate scheme from one of my sites and I get a second tier commission that actually costs them nothing - to join any of the schemes you promote costs real hard cash - not the same in my book at all - i.e. if someone joins an affiliate scheme through one of my links and sells nothing I make nothing - if someone joins Tiscali or one of your other schemes you gain financially even if they sell nothing.

You are being economical with the truth when you say the link in your sig is not an affiliate link - while technically true it goes to a page to sign up with Tiscali where the only options are links incorporating your referral id - if you are genuinely saying that it is not an affiliate link then why not also provide a 'virgin' tiscali link in your sig - that way people have a choice.

[Lea]

"I strongly discourage anyone from joining an mlm scheme and/or paying to join "associate" programmes"


Well if you tried to discourage me - you would not get very far.

I am part of an MLM company Telecom plus, it is a British PLC and one of the fastest growing and most exciting businesses in the UK.

I work when I want - if I want. I do get paid - and that is enough to me.

You have to take some gamble / gutsy moves if you want to get out of the rat race.

MLM is run down a lot - yet most of the people running it down have not been a part of it - and do not fully understand it.

You are a fool to fully rely on MLM alone - you should spread your risk out to earn MSI - multiple streams of income. It is only the fools who rely on one income who get stung - not those who use it to their advantage - to get them to higher places - and use it to invest in other things.

Lea