Networks vs In House

[Malcolm Cowley]

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Hi Rich

You summed it up perfectly mate

Its hard sometimes when your writing in a forum to get across exactly what you mean and once its down in print so to speak then it can be brought back up to haunt you so Im glad you didnt read it and think why has Mal turned into Reggie Kray lol

This thread is pants now though guys - maybe closing it off and restarting a proper open Pro's and Cons of Independant programs might be a better idea for all wdyt?

[km8]

Originally posted by Perfiliate
Hi Km8

"
For the record, I don't particlarly like Malcolm's assertion that this is his 'back yard' or his 'home ground' either "

Aye this did sound a bit stupid to be honest I agree with you - heat of the moment and all that.

I hope this makes sense - like i say heat of the moment and all that jazz

Sure Malcolm, that makes sense, and in the circomstances, I can emapthise with the 'heat of the moment' thing!

Apart from that quote, it was always clear to me where the merits of the argument lay.

I also go with your suggestion of a new thread to discuss the merits of the issue sensibly.

KM8

[allaffiliatepro]

Hi All,
I'm going to try to keep this one short.

I started this post very innocently tyring to thrash out a quick list of advantages/disadvantages of InHouse programs and networks. I think it would have made a very good debate and others seems to agree. I think it's a crying shame it has degressed in such a way. I had no intention of getting into an arguement, or lowering myself to return childish insults, I should have stayed on the high ground as with my original posts.

At first I was faced with agressive comments from perfiliate such as:-
"you assume to much"
"This is a joke right? You need to spend more time reading than writing"
Being accused of things I never said:-
"If you think this makes a great affiliate program then you r wrong"
"Please try and keep up"
"you sound like a newbie and there little benefit in explaining why to you if you cant see why yourself so ill leave you to it on this one"
"its going to be crap"
"you only seem to have slim grasp of"

I got all these comments from Perfiliate before I lowered myself to it. Once I lowered myself then I was hit with comments like:-
"its like your not hearing my comments and then in your brain they get twisted into something else so ill try and simplify it for you a bit more"
"Seriously please re read above before making another post so that it finally sinks in this time."
"to back up my insult earlier"

I'll stop there. There are simply to many insults and provocative comments to count.

Yes I admit I lowered myself to Perfiliates provacation. But if you look back at any of my negative comments, then look at Perfiliates prior messages then you'll see that each one is in direct responce to an insult from him. I was put in a difficult position, and lowered myself to it. I won't lower myself to such things again.

Affiliate Window have come up with some very good comments, and kept on topic. Why Melcom felt so threatened that he had to start name calling when the other networks didn't I'll leave to you.
I'll be replying to affiliate windows productive and informative comment in the morning as I have to leave my computer soon.

Kbudden - You have made some good ontopic points I've tried to respond to. Thank you. Your comment "such an issue with Malcolm" please look at the way Malcolm has insulted me from the start. You'll see my early posts ignored this, but later I did lower myself.

"Personal insults are uncalled for, churlish and more suited for delinquents in a primary school playground than a professional, friendly forum like this one." I heartily agree in fact I couldn't possible agree more.

I have learned a lot from your comments already, and have already affected some plans we have. Your input positive or negative has been none the less very informative.

"Maybe you could give me a brand name or two who are using your software" - We will be launching a directory with all our customers programs listed. As an example the client I am currently working with is Sally from AmpleBosom.com. I'm sure you've seen her on the tell she's has had quite a lot of press. As for install numbers I really have lost count, I don't know for sure.

To the rest of you thank very much for your input, I'll reply in the morning to all of your highly appreciated comments. I really to go now the girlfriend is complaining it's friday night.


P.S. Maybe we should give one of the merchants here a free copy of the software. Then we can see what they think of it first hand.

[Simon]

This is getting really stupid now.

It is coming down to who started it, well I dont care who threw the first punch, but what i do care about is an individual joining the forum with the intent to discredit networks in order to obtain merchants to purchase his software.

If you want to promote your software I can recommend a few good networks with thousands of affiliates, reliable tracking, marketing and technical support, along with plenty of experience in affiliate marketing. Plus they are ethical!!!

Sorry, only joking, I couldnt resist.

A few lessons to be learnt from this thread. Well hopefully!!!

[justnozy]

allaffiliatepro


Well first I apologise to all of my m8 's on this forum that it seems the only time I get involved is when I have "practised" for the next G2G !

I sat on this forum reading for a long time & the first contact I made was with Jess (award winning aff manager ) - as a total newbie, non techie ( scared sh*tless ) of making that first post - there is only one member on this forum that "attacked" - I tried not to respond ( but hey - have a pop - take a pop)

One menber out of 3000+ - let it go!

I have no hidden agenda , I want to make £££ out of this affiliate thingy. I have no tech skills, I had no rep on this forum, I did not know what the feck I was talking about !

But I read, I tried to help & I made comments. But I did NOT try to ram down peoples thoats my opinion. Hey! my opinion is as valid as everyone else's - doesn't mean its written in concrete.

I have supported G2G's - I have attended G2G's & I have made some very valuable contacts ( and friends)
- but I would hope ( and I mean this sincerely ) I projected myself as a straightforward person. Okay my plans, ambitions, attitudes will not appeal to everyone ( be a total fecking idiot if u think that way ) But it has taken me around 8mths to feel confident to challenge opions on this forum - yet todate I have not received one single penny from aff marketing.

I have been openly challenged about this (not earning) - & I have not hidden the fact that I am here simply to be educated (justnozy) as to how I can make profit from this affiliate thingy - but I did not rush in & try to convince people my attitude was right.

I may not be a "super" - not even a legit affiliate - but I am a member of this forum that has earned the right to be heard & allowed to question.

Your attitude fecking stinks - and now here is the proof - ;-

Most members of this forum know I have ( in my eyes) a big project about to be launched. I have spoken ( & been a pain in the a$se with respected members) - I have listened to advise - but not always agreed. "One man's poison another mans meat"

I am not without fault - yes I have no doubt not everyone agrees with my approach/attitude but this is my agenda! & so far I know I have (privately) upset one expert & maybe upset another but this is biz & this happen's .

Overall I would hope that most members accept I am okay, or at least genuine ( disregard the weird posts - please ). I hope this open attitude reaps me profit - which is why every member is a member.

Without going into 2 much detail I find myself in the strange position that I am about to launch ( in my opion) a major aff program, yet I have at the same time been:- knocked back by one "network", been ignored & been keenly approached. - meanwhile my coder does not want a "network" fecking his system . This is a really a big decision for me ( already invested way beyond your "off the shelf" & the set-up etc network costs) Also talked to the "respected" indie aff program vendors.

I intend to launch a "prime" site - but have many, many sub sites within the umbrella ( feck explaining to u - do some research). So ideally get a network to promote the prime site then run indie programs for min 20 sites?


Big question - considering my coder does not want "networks" fecking his system!

Well thanks for helping me make this decision with your thread.

Malcolm can you contact me - or if your to busy responding to this muppet ask Steve to give me a call - your place or mine m8 ?


So there you go :-

I respnded to a muppet - but put a sales pitch in it without offending people.
I showed loyalty without brown-nosing.
& left the question - whats this new aff program

Thank you for creating the interest in this thread muppet!

Cheers
Justnozy

BTW - I bet u 5 x your fee I do not respond to your comments - unlike our respected network aff managers - I have nothing to protect - except maybe who is the biggest dic*head!!!

[drivetowin]

justnozy

lol - but very well said

I'd like to think I have the respect of many on this forum but like you I lurked first and for every post I make confronting people probably make at least 10 helping others on their way.

Any one who comes to this forum being patronising instantly gets my back up

Yes, I have a lot of time and respect for Malcolm but that doesn't mean we don't have occassions when we disagree - Malcolm and I had a very public brawl on this forum over buyats position on removing 180 from their network (you'd probably have to hunt well into the archives now to find it) - but because we have professional respect for each other this public spat most definitely did not prevent us having a few very sociable beers together at the last g2g.

I'm a firm believer that you get out of life what you're prepared to put in, and this forum is no different, treat others with respect and help where you can, and you'll find those people and others rallying round when you need help yourself.

ps: good luck with your new progamme - if you need someone to help you test things or cast an affilate eye over it please drop me a PM or email

[Ecco]

Just had a read of this thread as it seemed to be stirring up a little interest.

The net resullt for me is that allaffiliatepro, and who he represents, is not something I'd be interesting in as an affiliate. Getting into petty squabbles like this demeans the business and certainly devalues allaffiliatepro's credibility in my eyes.

Possibly not the original intention when he opened the thread but keep posting so others like me, who don't read everything here, can be warned before wasting any of our time.

Please be as nasty and personal as you like when responding, as I won't be reading

No offence to POR, AWIN, and the other chaps who've tried to have a sensible debate.

[allaffiliatepro]

I live and learn. If your in a new playground and someone disagrees with you and starts insulting you should just ignore it. It will be interesting to see how insulting Malcom is when he's looking at me face to face. If anyone saw the last newspaper artivle on me they'll know what I mean.

Ecco - I won't react to provacation again.

Kbudden - I'm nice to you, your interesting in your replys. Kind of reminds me of an old girlfriend I had.
"I'm a firm believer that you get out of life what you're prepared to put in" I heartily agree.

JustNozy - "( but hey - have a pop - take a pop) " interesting comment. It doesn't appear to quite work like that. And never forget, 'A muppet is for life, not jsut for christmas'.

Simon - "intent to discredit networks in order to obtain merchants to purchase his software." That is not and was not my intent. From my point of view, reading back through it all, it looks more like several networks trying to dis credit in house programs.
"Plus they are ethical!!!" If you knew me you'd know I'm a deeply ethical person who'll be honerable and stand up for what's right against any odds.
Like I said before I didn't start this thread to try and get sales. If I were after sales the thread would have started in a totally different way.

Hi Jenny,
Some good points that fit in with my view on how affiliate networks will go in the future, rather than large general affiliate networks, I envisage smaller networks in specific areas. Such as your finance network. It puts you in a much better position to give your clients a good service for them specifically.


Affiliate Window:-
"I'd like to add a few more here:
- Affiliate support provided.
- Advertised alongside similar programs.
- Little technical integration required.
- Superior Affiliate reporting.
- No bandwidth costs for ad delivery"

I can't agree with superior affiliate reporting, but I see the other points as valid. I'm not sure how much I see bandwidth as an issue. I often recommend to customers to have the affiliates download the banners onto their servers. This is a great help to reduce Ad Blocking, load times, and of course bandwidth. When customers do serve banners to take some example figures:-
12kb banner served 10,000 times eats 117.2 Megs of bandwidth (that's 1,024Kb per meg for those not in the know). So that's about 1.2 gigs per 100,000 views. With optimized banners this would be much lower.

"There are several networks where affiliate contact details are availiable" - Do you give out the affiliates full name and address or just an email contact form?

"· Affiliate links do not go through your site - I dont fully see how this is a disadvantage, or infact how its true."
An affiliate link from a network will look something like:-
http://www.affiliatenetwork.com/clicker?user&NUMBERS

In Google and a lot of the other engines this means a link popularity and page rank boost for the affilaite netowrk. Helping them rank higher in the search engines from your inbound affiliate links.
An in house link looks something like:-
http://www.yourdomain.com/clicker?user

This boosts your in bound links and so your search rankings.

No of course this is not the point of affiliate marketing. But it a very useful spin off, if you have thousands of affiliate links wouldn't you like them to help improve your sites search rank? (you being the merchant, it's already boosting the networks page rank).

"an off the shelf solution will have restrictions as to what you can do with it." - With many of the off the shelf software you have to choice to have it customized or the source code to customize yourself (usually if you have or are a programmer).

"possibly a benefit, but a fringe one."
I'd say it's definately a benefit, and I wouldn't call it a fringe one. This is one of the most popular requests from the sales leads that contact me.

Greater tracking accuracy - As the inhouse software is usually on the same machine as the shopping cart software there are many options to integrate in specific ways.

"- no marketing advice/support" I do not agree with this. We can provide marketing support and advice, or put you in touch with the right people in all areas of site promotion.

PerfiliatePaul - When you say you have 4 other methods, don't forget that server logs and sessions Id's reply IP's and cookies.

km8 - Ok, I promise this is the last one but form your comment:-
"I didn't infer any of the above from Malcolm's posts"
I though I should show, Malcom sad:-
" in your brain they get twisted into something else so ill try and simplify it for you a bit more"
so I replied with
"I'll keep this real slow for you"
The comments seem to be on the same level to me. My comment was directed to Malcom alone in responce to his insult.
"network vs indy? that could have been interesting" - That's the exact thing I though!

Hi Rich - No I haven't taken any tie reading these forums. I had a quick look and jumped right in. I'm not one to lurk in the shadows or sit on the fence. I'm a man of action, who stands his ground and voices his views. If that upsets some peoples agendas I can't help it. I'm not going to change who I am to promote an affiliate network.

Yes setting up an in house program and joining a network are different. With an in house program you have software to install. But installing the software takes a matter on minutes, and Basic integration will be very similar to a network.

"If its in house the affilaite gets 10% and higher admin costs, if its via a network the affiliate gets 7.7% and lower admin costs." I don't quite follow. What do you see as the extra admin costs for an affiliate of an in house program?

Kbudden again - I've spoken to my accountant about the state of the invoice situation. This is what he's told me:-
a) Affiliates would only need to invoice if they are VAT registered
b) New legislation has made self invoicing a doddle.
c) I'll get any other points related to this answer for you from my accountant.



Well there we have it! Caused quite a still on my first post. Got a few network backs up managing to worry and upset them and some of their friends.

Let's see what the future holds!

[Supercod]

Right I think it’s time to close this post off and start again. I am going to make a post entitled “The Pro’s and Con’s of using an In-House Program / Affiliate Network”. I will make a quick introduction and then people can post (re-post) what they think are pro’s and con’s. Then anyone can challenge each of the points, however any challenge will be with regards to the point, and I want you to use the quote function, quoting the part your changing in full

Originally posted by allaffiliatepro
It will be interesting to see how insulting Malcom is when he's looking at me face to face. If anyone saw the last newspaper artivle on me they'll know what I mean.

This is a threat to me, veiled threats as you’re a kick boxer and that’s not on. Malcom is a big chap and can defend himself however I on the other hand don't like people coming to this forum and threaten any member with physical violence more so when it’s a long time well respected member who gives a lot of personal time to this community. This is not the type of place this is. Your membership status is on review in the Mods Forum.

A word of advice for new comers to the forum, we love new people to get stuck in, but please read what others have said. And a word of advice to everyone, often someone else with a different point of view can be right, if they are accept this and move on … I can tell you for a fact that both In-House and Network have good points going for them that the other can’t compete with, the issue for a merchant is always going to be for the size of business, product/service they offer and the staff they have, what is going to be the option that will be right for them, and will ultimately make them the most sales at the best value (value not always being getting it cheap).

Ok, fun as a heated debate gets on this forum, I am closing the post and off we go again

New Post: http://www.a4uforum.co.uk/showthread...threadid=22609