Merchants Using Network Tracking

[Qui Gon Jinn]

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Here is a scenario:

We have sent a merchant traffic via our sites or non-branded ppc.

The cookie is placed. But the consumer doesn't decide to purchase at that point in time.

Sometime later, the consumer decides to buy and types in the merchant name into Google. There is a sponsored listing there for that merchants brand, for which brand named bidding is prohibited by affiliates but they are "supposedly" using the network link for tracking purposes.

The consumer clicks on this link

Consequently, the affiliate cookie is overwritten, and the affiliate loses their commission.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

Let's take an example of an ad that has been running for quite a while.

Until just recently this ad had been running on it's own fro a significant period of time.

Then a small group of affiliates were licenced to bid on the brand as long as the landing page was not direct to merchant.

Please note this has nothing to do with those affiliates so they are not to be blamed in any shape or form.

Now this was also verified by a fellow affiliate re overwriting of cookie.

Use your Tiscali affiliate link, so that cookie is placed on your pc.

Now goto Google and type in "Tiscali"

At the top you will see a direct dgm link, which we were informed was the merchant doing their own tracking as dgm do their ppc on the merchants behalf.

Now we are finding more & more of these on different networks, who's to know if any link is a network or actual affiliate link.

[loquax]

Imo with regards to PPC, some where along the line it's got to be made clear to all affiliates what is going on, who can do it, and how they can do it.

As i see ppc as an outsider it does seem to be a "jobs for my friends" system with it's main players constantly looking over their shoulders... plus imo it's verging on restrictive practice (e.g a merchant gives an affiliate spend to do ppc for them, or a network selects who they like, and then <i>prevents</i> other affiliates using terms)

"A restrictive practice is one, which is employed to limit competition, and prevent rival firms from competing on equal terms, reducing the benefits resulting from competition in the market to consumers."

Ultimately though what i don't understand (again as an outsider to PPC) is why some of you guys put up with what is thrown at you. You're spending money to earn the network money - take away your spend from them and they won't earn. When you realise you're in control then perhaps there may be less cloak/dagger situations with everyone knowing the rules and abiding by them.

Jason

[marcg]

Consequently, the affiliate cookie is overwritten, and the affiliate loses their commission.

Why should the merchant pay both the PPC price of aquiring the cost of the customer and the affiliate commission when the affiliate wasn't the one that generated the actual sale?

What if the customer goes to kelkoo and finds the matching merchant there with the best price? Do the affiliate deserve the commission then?

'Last click wins the commission' is the way I think all the affiliate networks work and we've all agreed in the past that its the fairest way. Any merchant that doesn't implement cross-campaign tracking is really opening themselves up to paying more than they need to for thier customer aquisition.

I think the fact that the customer could type in the merchants own website address (which they may have seen on TV or other offline ads) directly into their web browser and the affiliate can still earn the commission a month (or several months) after the initial click, pretty much makes up for merchants wanting to consolidate all thier online campaigns through the same tracking interface to ensure they dont pay more than once for thier customers.

[mdrussell]

Thanks for poiting this out to us:-

I dont mind the issue of separate companies doing ppc for merchants and having the right to go direct to the merchant page because that is part of the affiliate world. But to put a tracking url in place so it overides th affiliate cookie is totally wrong when we as affiliates are told that network companys doing PPC doesnt affect us at all.

It leads you to the question how many other programmes is this happening with and how much money as affiliates are we losing?

Is this just a case of a network getting to greedy?

[Qui Gon Jinn]

Upon request to DGM to contact the merchant directly, DGM refused on the grounds they cannot disclose those details & in previous conversation it's against their T&C's "DGM diapprove direct communication between merchant & affiliate"

Before we get on any DGM bashing bandwagon, this is not the only network.

[Rich]

On one hand, if the merchant is paying for their own ppc, and that is the last referrer, then they have some right not to pay an affiliate that previously sent a user to the site. Therefore it makes no difference if they use a network link that overrite the cookie.

On the other hand, merchants using network links on terms that are not allowed to be used by that merchant just makes things unclear, and probably opens the merchant to other affiliates thinking - 'there is one affiliate getting away with brand bidding so I'll give it a go'.

Policing direct to merchant brand bidding is about the easiest task possible for the networks, so there is no reason that this shouldn't be a clear cut area. Also, I'm sure a network could set up an alternative url format to differenciate when links are used for network managed PPC () or the merchants own tracking fit minimal effort.

[marcg]

I dont see why a network should not be able to provide other agency services to merchants, such as management of PPC campaigns, branding campaigns, or handling a merchants spare inventory.

It makes sence for merchants to handle thier online cmapaigns through the same tracking system, both for reporting purposes and ensuring that they are not paying out money for both PPC costs and affiliate commissions on the same traffic.

[Rich]

'Last click wins the commission' is the way I think all the affiliate networks work and we've all agreed in the past that its the fairest way. Any merchant that doesn't implement cross-campaign tracking is really opening themselves up to paying more than they need to for thier customer aquisition.

I agree with that, as said above, but there are still a lot of options about how to implement that which we don't get to find out, e.g. should /does a merchant pay out affiliate commission if the user has been referred by one of the following since the affiliate click - a natural search results, a natural link in, a requested link exchange, a directly typed url. (sorry bit off topic)

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I dont see why a network should not be able to provide other agency services to merchants, such as management of PPC campaigns, branding campaigns, or handling a merchants spare inventory.

That is not the agurment...If there is no affiliate cookie to overwrite then fair enough...But if there is then there is a conflict of interest whether there are ppc restrictions or not on a brand....aslo going back to points that networks have the opportunity to glean affiliate stats (our data!) for their own needs. With only the networks word to take.

It will come to a point (if not already) where affiliates (ppc specilaists) will group together to do ppc obo merchants & leave the network totally out of the equation.

[smoothy]

Hi
can i give you a situation that happened to us...
ok.. we are the merchant..
before we had the affiliate program we sold our own brand online..
alone...
we started the affiliate program, then one of our best customers
decided to place an order,, may i say it was the biggest order she had ever
given us,, but,,,,,, she had been to one of our affiliates sites, that we never had before.. and she entered our site via the affiliates,, did we pay the affiliate commish from one of our own long standing customers,,,YES.
That was the last click, and thats it

[Qui Gon Jinn]

That is a whole new subject area I would quite happily open a new thread on...and not this

So if you only interested in new customer acquisition....then pay the lifetime value of a customer on the first order or residual income on new customers (again pros & cons to that too) or close the program would be my opening comment. But let's discuss that in another thread.

[drivetowin]

It has to be last click wins - thats the model we all understand and work to.

I think there are two separate issues here which is why the water is getting muddy.

1. If a merchant is paying ppc and someone clicks on that ad and goes on to buy (and that click was the last action) then the affiliate should not get the commission - end of story - why should the merchant pay twice? - I cant think of a convincing argument on that one... after all put it the other way round - if someone has clicked on the merchant ppc, gone to the site and not purchased but then clicks on an affiliate ppc ad, goes back to the site and then makes the purchase are you saying the affiliate should not get the commission - no I thought not! - you cant have it both ways...

Either way in this situation I think whether the merchant is using the networks tracking to track their own ppc activity or not is irrelevant, though I can see why its confusing and why they could be confused as another affiliate apparently bidding on banned terms.

2. The bigger issue is are networks using affiliate data (intellectual property) to their own advantage when managing the ppc campaigns for their merchants. If they are then that is clearly wrong and they should be publically outed for doing so, we have seen success on that front already this year when activity on this forum prompted DGM to shut down one of its subsidiary operations which it was suspected was doing exactly that.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

kbudden,

1. We need to establish if it is the merchant or is it the network bidding, by getting a statement from the merchant & not via the network?

2. Couldn't they use webgravity for that?! They use webgravity for Comet related & electrical terms?

3. Are we happy with networks or employee within networks bidding against us?

4. We have no way of knowing if our data is used against us or not. We only have intuition to go on.

P.S. No one is saying that merchants can't use ppc services or do it themselves. Just don't overwrite the cookie with an affiliate link.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

BTW The affiliate link wasn't working for a while, but now the ad link has been changed to a link direct to merchant (non affiliate link)