Merchants bidding on other brands

[Shane]

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Might be me but does anyone else think it's a bit cheeky of merchants to ban brand name bidding on their brand when they themselves bid on other merchants brands in their sector ?

Personally I think it's a bit much as a merchant to bid on other merchants brand names unless you'd be happy to have them bidding on yours and when a merchant actually bans brand name bidding amongst it's own affiliates and then takes up or carries on brand name bidding on other merchants then I personally think they are well out of order...

I'm not going to name the merchants I've found doing it but what's everyone else's view on this ? am I being a bit petty or over zealous here or what ?

been sunny all day I'll blame that

[Paul Wright]

Hi Shane,

I guess it depends on whether or not Merchant A (who has a trademark) and Merchant B (who has no restrictions) have any kind of relationship together.

eg. Dixons (trademarked) bidding on Panasonic.

If this is the case i don't see any problem. I know that's a pretty straight forward example but sometimes the relationship is not immediately obvious - an hidden incentive or benefit on a credit card for example could warrant bidding on that product and advertising the card.

[eskimo]

It does seem slightly hypocritical, but take into consideration that the brand name they are bidding on, hasn't neccasarily banned themselves from being bid on.

Indeed it's surpising how many brands are unware or unconcerend by PPC bidding, it could even be that that is a major route to their online sales, especially if their own website is somewhat lacking.

Let's also not forget that the people conducting the PPC campaign, are a distinct entity, possibly a seperate company, from those who are stopping you bidding on their brand.

I think PPC, and PPC protected brands, could spell the death of a lot of affiliate sites out there. I hope that's cheered you up.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I agree with you totally Shane, but with the way Google Adwords is working now in the manner they display ads.. for example ads unpredictably showing up for a keyword you are not bidding on, you can never be 100% sure.

Hyperthetical example - if you bid on a generic term like "banana" but show up for the brand term "orange" or "apple", simply because it is a fruit. The way adds appear now it is less transparent & leads to further confusion in the marketplace. Why should an advertiser pay for the latter two keywords when they only sell bananas but not apples or oranges? You cannot expect them to negative keyword every potential fruit especially if they are unaware of a particular fruit like Carambola or didn t realise that a Tomato was a fruit & not a vegetable. When you have thousands of words in your account, this is logistically impossible to deal with. Then on top of this the ads start appearing for when a user types in the name of a supermarket, because that supermarket happens to sell fruit...even the mispellings of that supermarket name !?...where does it end?

Basically it illustrates how there seems to be a misconception of how ads appear on Google, and it seems like there is an element or form of contextual ads occasionally appearing on Google. As it stands you can never be 100% sure.

Google Adwords needs to be totally clear on this, as it can lead to problems, which we have been unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end off.

Read Here

Clearly illustrates that some Networks & Merchants need to err on the side of caution & polite etiquette before getting heavy handed with affiliates & stop pandering to the merchants - incase they are mistaken - otherwise they could potentially receive negative coverage / publicity. As Google's delivery of ads is not transparent.

But, yes we have seen a number of instances where it can be perceived that a merchant is bidding on other merchants names when they impose restrictions themselves... "the pot calling the kettle black" ... They get a bit funny, yet they "appear" (using the term loosely) to have been flouting their own guidelines for months like one particular wine merchant. Only as recent as this weekend had the ads stopped appearing for most competitors of theirs, but we are watching them.

[ridleyjones]

Just thought I'd pick up this as a very disgruntled merchant at the moment.....another merchant and indeed a competitor is curtently bidding on one of our brand terms and I am waiting for google to take action.....could be old and grey though by then though!

This is something I, as a merchant, would never dream of doing as I see it as openly trying to steal and divert our traffic....people already know our brand but still choose to go via google as it's their home page.

With Overture things are so much easier, anyone attempting this just gets stopped immediately....but with google it's another thing altogether. If google do nothing, then we will be taking legal action against the company in question.

any advice, comments greatly appreciated.

Steph, www.CotswoldCo.com

[fieldandtrek]

Hi Steph,

Have you filled out and faxed back the forms for google? A company we have a relationship with said it took 7 months for google to sort theirs out; hopefully it won't be as long for you.

I suggest you speak to the other merchant and advise them that it's very bad practice. Not sure they are doing anything illigal.

[ridleyjones]

Hi James

Yes, I've sent the forms back to google, and our PPC agency are constantly chasing them for response too. My initial action was to contact the merchant, as I presumed it could be an agency or affiliate bidding without maybe them knowing and they would accept it's not good practice and stop......but they admitted they were doing it themselves, are not repared to stop......they are not a worryingly sized competitor so there's no point doing the same back to them as their traffic would not even be in the same league as ours. Very annoying that they are openly trying to steal ours.

Steph

[fieldandtrek]

Is it this place?

http://www.theholdingcompany.co.uk/?source=GooglePPC

[ridleyjones]

Yes, they're the ones! What do you think?

[fieldandtrek]

As I said - it's very bad practice, but there isn't much that can be done about it

Maybe if a few people were to mail their MD (assuming we could get his/her address), they would change their mind?

[Barry]

I hope your situation changes soon Steph, google appears to be good at taking their time over these situations.

Funilly enough when I check my keywords every morning I always see the holding companies ad and click it to check out their latest daily deals - the thing is they never have any 'cotswold co' furniture!? Still I'll have another look tomorrow, as I am always keen to know what they have in stock - lol

My only advise at the moment is to carry on what you are doing. Keep it straight - don't lower yourself to their level and start a bid war on their keywords. I really can't see them making money from bidding on your keywords (cotswold co) - they are probably just trying it on - and will lose money doing so.

It seems that google recognises 'cotwold company' as a trademark but not 'cotswold co' or 'cotswoldco' - it should only be a short while for google to recognise your trademarks, if you have trademarked those terms as a business name.



More generally, I think that it is fair game to bid on any term - 'unless somebody has a legitimate complaint', if somebody does I always comply.
-- But as far as I can see its a bit like a store - dictating who is going to open a store nearer to the entrace of a retail park for eg - because they feel that customers as being 'diverted' or 'stolen' before they reach the entrance to their store.

What I mean is that the most important thing for a merchant to do - is to be a better quality and price than your competition - even if they are bidding over you, customers will recognise your brand and trust in it - it should sell itself. (obviously its slightly different for affiliates bidding on your name where the user gets the right brand - but you lose the commission that they earn)

[ridleyjones]

perhaps?? not sure they will listen...as they didnt listen to the complainant. Worth a go if you're up for it?
S

[EyeOfTheTiger]

Are the word(s) they are using a trademark of yours ? If not get it trademarked if you can. Then as I understand you can sue them and FORCE them to stop using your mark to trade on.

And if google dont sort it immediately surely you can sue them too ?

Or am i wrong?

Tiger

[ridleyjones]

Thanks for your feedback guys........i'll keep you posted

[MFI]

Hi Steph,

My brand is protected on google, but before it was I usually found that an email following up quickly with a phone call was enough to get them to take the ads off.

As this hasn't worked I'd suggest getting your solicitor/legal dept to send a letter right away telling them to stop as it is trademark infringement pure and simple.

It's clear that Google are in no rush to burden themselves with policing brand infringements, and I can't see it getting better anytime soon because they would lose an element of ease in the signup process for adwords.

So I would always suggest personal contact with the company bidding on these terms as first port of call whether it's you or your legal team.

Good luck!