FAO Merchants : Educating Your Consumers Re Spyware

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 01-07-05

I wonder merchants would be accommodating / amenableto the idea - if it was suggested to them to display prominently on their site information educating their consumers with regard to spyware ... in return for some kind of Endorsement or trustmark.... if the need necessitates it.

We are nearing completion of a website educating consumers about the basics of spyware and recommending merchants who do educate their customers about spyware & another list for those who don't.

Whereby each merchant will initially be approached & consumers can make their own informed decision on the response or lack of response from merchants why do / don't educate their customers.

Or would too many merchants shy away from it mistakenly thinking it would affect their bottom line or maybe still simply not understand enough about the topic.

It's all okay speaking aloud or voicing support within industry circles, but words do come cheap. However, by a merchant being seen to be concerned for their customers should only have the positive desired effect of enhancing their brand, suggesting that they do care.... A real opportunity for merchants to show that they care about new & existing customers.

Honest opinions from merchants would be appreciated!

**jess1** · 02-07-05

It is imperative that merchants get to grips with the whole issue…they should be looking after their customers, at the end of the day crapware does nothing but slow up your computer and can prevent a sale from taking place. It’s a bit of a no brainer really, they should be educating their customers. Customers will thank them for sure for taking such a stance!

**pricethat** · 03-07-05

Idealistic ideas eh? I think personally its the most stupid idea i have ever heard of, sure there needs to be more public awareness but customers are going to merchants sites then to get scared off the whole idea of buying online.

probably 95% of people havent got a clue what adware and spyware is and even if they did they wouldnt know what to do with it. The merchant wants to make sales, not put customers off the idea of buying from them and at the same time buying online in general.

Unsold carts can happen for a hundreds of silly little stupid reasons, with that in mind why would you put one big reason in front of them on a plate?

I know its a problem and i am sure i will get snarled at for the next comment but i am sure a lot of underperforming affiliates lay the blame squarely in the hands of spyware and adware and not in their own shortfalls

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 03-07-05

i am sure i will get snarled at for the next comment

More bemused perhaps?

Suggestion: Perhaps give affiliates a little more credit rather than insulting their intelligence.

i am sure a lot of underperforming affiliates lay the blame squarely in the hands of spyware and adware and not in their own shortfalls

Again reiterating: Give affiliates a little more credit rather than insulting their intelligence.

Suggestion: Maybe read the number of threads over the past 18 months to maybe see the "bigger picture" which goes way beyond the realms of affiliate marketing & the effects it already has on businesses (online stores) & peoples general use of the internet & privacy issues.

probably 95% of people havent got a clue what adware and spyware is and even if they did they wouldnt know what to do with it.

That's why there needs to be awareness & education. For example when you turn on the tap for a glass of water, you expect it to be clean, fresh & safe. Yet not necessarily be knowledgeable about the whole water filtration process. Then there should be safety in the knowledge when a user switches on their computer to access the internet. Dunno if you have kids, but if your happy with porn popping up all over the joint when their surfing the net then your morals are different to mine .. or popping up all over your site when someone visits your site then what do you think will be their perception of your brand. There are dozens of examples & reasons.

Sometimes the industry has to take one step back to make two steps forward.

There are those that do something about it for selfLESS reasons & then there are "some" of those that do nothing about it for selfISH reasons.

Don't wish to sound too pedantic & spyware doesn't equate in the slighest to any degree.. but will you next say that G8 Live is idealistic & unworkable because it's unfair to the French on the subsidies they receive from the EU.

**pricethat** · 03-07-05

I have read ALL the posts over the last 18 months, and further back from that including all of ben edelman reports and the work Richard has done on the subject.

Further to that i study every day the effects of and tactics of adware companies including claria, metricsdirect etc. I have 4 machines each with different applications running and am contracted by two different companies to compile detailed reports on this very subject and again i still think this idea is stupid.

This is a serious problem no doubt but in effect its for the most part a microsoft problem. A simple administrator function especially for adults that requires re-entry of the windows key or other more complicated proceedure to install applications of this nature. A more rigid software signing proceedure or anything of that nature is what ideally is needed.

The latest service pack on its own was a big step forward on microsoft XP, Microsoft have already acquired an antivirus company which products seem to be scheduled for inclusion in longhorn or whatever they will call it. Dont forget that these companies are in effect a threat to microsofts ability to promote its own advertising and also a reason why people shouldnt use microsoft products (these are the main targetted ones). I personally dont see this issue being around for much longer than two more years on the scale it is now.

I dont know how much your study is to unsold carts but unsold carts are a big factor in any ecommerce site. They are probably the single biggest thing that a merchant can use to gage problems with their sites, calling customers to ask can identify problems or things that put people off from buying.

Im really not saying im the last authority on unsold carts but you place that logo on peoples sites or that awareness banner or whatever you want to call it and you will put people off from buying, you will deliberately create a fear that need not be there.

A merchants job is to sell his or her products and at bear minimum offer a secure platform to conduct the sale. A merchant cant be expected to anything more than that. If its a computer issue then it should be addressed through computer channels not through retailers. If its of such a security issue then it should be addressed through governments and departments but using your time if your serious about this issue to promote this idea of yours to merchants is in my opinion a waist of what is valuable time.

Would it not be a better approach to promote the subject of internet security as a whole in promoting an antivirus program that can identify, prevent or eliminate such threats, this covers all other programs and viruses at the same time. A lot less alarming to the consumer and has the same effect.

With regards to my comment about "some" affiliates, i cant really take back my words when from "some" affiliates i have heard said the very same thing that sales are a lot less and at the same time adware/spyware has risen (on this forum as well). So of course i give affiliates credit where credit due. I also know personally a number of exceptionally well performing affiliates that hate adware and spyware with a vengeance but they dont even know what it does.

I think in summary your help against this problem is welcomed by all that understand the complicated nature of such applications and also by me especially but i do think that this approach is plain daft ( as an expression of opinion only).

Great concept, wrong way of doing it, but as i say its an opinion and thats what this forum is for eh?

Why not make it a little more simple, make sure your anti virus software is up to date "heres the one we recommend to protect yourself"

**jess1** · 04-07-05

Hi Price that:

Idealistic ideas eh?

What on earth are you talking about?

There is nothing idealistic about informing joe public that their machine is susceptible to crapware and how to remove it. Dont tell me that this ****eware does not prevent customers from making a purchase, customer services at ASOS were receiving emails on a daily basis about how they were getting pop ups, how they tried to get to our site, could we help them remove the crap from their computers. So much so that ASOS did the right thing and start to educate their customers http://www.asos.com/helpdesk.asp#spyware

Self indulgent pontification about users having up to date virus software...and how its all microsofts fault aint gonna help those users who only know how to switch a computer on and surf! (or perhaps you think its the users fault too) Yes we know that there are greater reasons why merchants baskets are abandoned (I bought the t-shirt) Posting as an affiliate manager,affiliate, parent & daughter of two mature parents!

The consumer fear factor for not supporting such an "idealistic idea" (conjures up images of the tooting popular front), I think all the stuff given out about using your credit card over the internet and fraud is enough to put any one off from buying anything period, but they still buy... and evidense proves that (care to look at the IMRG's latest release) Consumers would rather be eduacted or alerted to pitfalls, it should be seen as our duty to alert and inform... I want my merchants customers thanking them for helping them out... will lead to repeat sales!

**Fraser** · 04-07-05

Pricethat said

probably 95% of people havent got a clue what adware and spyware is and even if they did they wouldnt know what to do with it.

The BBC said

Chances are that you already have some spyware on your PC. In most surveys about 90% of PCs are found to have several pieces of the surreptitious software installed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4528801.stm

I reckon both comments could be fairly accurate and thats exactly why something like this needs to be done. 95% don't know about it but 90% have got it. That's a lot of people with a spyware problem that need some help.

**Paul Wright** · 04-07-05

Just a thought but is there a way for shopping cart software to detect infected computers presale and let the customer know, then direct them towards instructions on how to remove or where to get more info on AV products/firewalls etc.

**drivetowin** · 04-07-05

Anything which can be done to educate Joe Public on this has to be a good idea.

I'd like to think I'm reasonably computer savvy but I recently got some crapware installed on my pc and it took me the best part of a days solid effort to remove it - and that was knowing what I was doing - ordinary Joe Public would not stand a chance - getting one of them to boot from a floppy to a dos prompt, identify the files and then delete them would be a total non-starter.

So it has to be best to educate people as far as possible so they a) dont receive this crap on their pcs in the first place, b) know what to do about it once its there and c) dont think that it is our sites that have put it there

It is in the last part that there is still also work to be done - I used to run CPM ads from adviva but removed them because too many spyware detection programmes flagged them up and I was getting too many email complaints from users saying why are you promoting spyware.

**jess1** · 04-07-05

Paul...
Now we are cooking, fab idea.... but I am not sure if the technology is there to do this. If so.... would be very useful, if not... some one could work on this. But if the problem is getting the infected user to the site in the first place...

I spoke to a merchant quite recently, already has an exsisting affy program in the US.... he sells gifts. He was testing out his own website from his home pc and he could not access it for pop ups... that could have been his customer.

but all food for thought!

**pricethat** · 18-07-05

Originally Posted by jess1

Self indulgent pontification about users having up to date virus software...and how its all microsofts fault aint gonna help those users who only know how to switch a computer on and surf! (or perhaps you think its the users fault too)

I fail to see how im self indulgent in anyway by contributing to this discussion, you have your viewpoint i have mine, but i am greatly mistaken for thinking that people like yourself actually wanted to do something for people in relation to spyware and adware.

My thought behind my comments is that for every one customer you delight in rescuing them from adware, you will put off another two. Your not the only person with a wealth of data and experience to hand jess.

By advertising the fact that they need to run very good anti virus software doesnt just help them with adware, it helps them with any form of problem, some of them even come bundled with operating system help and allsorts of tools that will help them keep their machine running, that to me is more help than blabbing on about spyware in particular.

I guess it comes down to what makes you tick, if its the subject of spyware and adware then fine, but if its genuinly helping people i dont see that anyone would disagree with my comments.

When it comes back round to specifically dealing with spyware and adware how much difference would a 1000 merchants make listing prominent anti spyware and adware ads on the internet compared with a few minutes of their time to lobby Mp's and or Microsoft. Im sure the latter would raise the profile much more than a few logos mapped around the place.

Im sure your comitted to helping people, i for one just think its the wrong approach when if people used their time more constructively they would get a much better result. I can see more merchants that would spend a little of their time on a petition and or letters to microsoft etc than i would seeing them bringing up problems on their website that a customer didnt know of in the first place.

Im just thinking of merchants and what i know, asking maybe 15 merchants i know personally i doubt i would get their attention to do this and im sure they wouldnt be happy to put it on their sites. Asking them to sign a prewritten complaint to the real parties involved in fixing this problem would probably be more productive and involve less work. Im on the same side, i didnt deserve to be called self indulgent, nor pompous in any way.

**TJ.** · 20-07-05

QGJ going back to your original statement where would you expect such information to appear on a merchant site?

I feel Pricethat does have a point and providing customers with a reason to drop out at the basket stage wouldn't be something that many merchants would be prepared to do.

However, including information to educate customers about the issues in a general area on secure shopping could be a good approach.

**Rosco** · 05-08-05

Hi
I feel that the most productive place to include any information about spyware and other security issues would be on the confirmation page.

If the customers are given help and made aware of the problems with spyware it will go towards a better shopping experience, after all customers that have a computer that runs at snail pace and have no idea why would, im sure appreciate someone pointing to the cure.