Networks Browser Issues

[Max_Bush]

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What is the tracking like on browsers other than IE from the networks?

I was told that tracking is quite often not tested on several browsers (firefox specifically) and that quite often they just accept the fact that orders will not be tracked if they are placed through anything other than IE.

This seems slightly worrying and wondered if this is just a myth?

[Swiss]

I've never heard of this, but I would be very worried if that was the case. Use use FireFox, and so do a LOT of people I know. I can't see how there should be a problem though as, as far as I am aware, all the major browsers handle cookies in the same way, and thats how I understand the tracking works, via cookies...

[Ryan Gilbert]

Sounds like myth to me...
As far as I know all browsers have the ability to block cookies but are set to accept by default. Reason being because cookies are designed to enhance user experience but as privacy becomes a more prominent issue online, more and more software is developed to block them creating an issue for all of us in this industry.

The main cookie issues in the industry that I'm aware of are:
1. Spyware programs label cookies as "tracking cookies" and consumers remove them on a default system scan.
2. Consumers block or delete cookies from their system manually every month or so because they fear they are "tracking cookies" and hold their personal information that others can access.
3. Virus security software that is set to block cookies.

Realising the increasing threat to affiliate income we invested the time to develop the first cookie-less tracking system. But consumers still need to be educated about cookies, who is using them and for what purpose, and what their realistic privacy alternatives are. Instead, there is a building paranoia about cookies allowing others access to your information.

[Supercod]

Hi Ryan, please don’t take this post the wrong way, I am interested in what you have posted and I am glad for you guys if you’re truly have a cookie less system that works and would replace cookies.

But I have to point out there is plenty of cookie less tracking systems on the go with different networks, and they are not all great, some don’t even last very long but they are back ups and don't use cookies and so are therefore "cookie less". But at least we know what they are, where as your cookie less tracking you have basically said on this forum. “We have a system that works but we not going to tell you anything about, just trust us it works.” (Not a real quote LOL) So couldn’t all networks not just say the same thing as no one going to know if the are.

Also if the cookie less tracking is good as made out, why are you using cookies? Again I not trying to be a smart arse I am simply trying to work out with my Affiliate Hat if you’re just saying stuff that we want to hear or if it really is a break through.

I also know from speaking to a few Networks that they are also developing new back-up systems, as I said some have limited systems in place but it really won’t be helpful if they all say we got a new tracking system but we can’t tell you about it. Affiliates are already in the dark once someone leaves their site and it’s up to trusting the Merchant and the Network they are not up to any funny business.

And for the record I like Webgains and while I am just getting started, you are already higher for links than for example 1 network I have been using since 1999 when picking a link if they had it and you had it

One last question, is this new tracking working on all Merchants or just some of them.. and if I was to turn off my cookies and order stuff would it work? Or do other factors have to be in play?

[Ryan Gilbert]

Hi Clarke, I've learnt a lot from your threads over the years and would never take your posts the wrong way... I respect your views.

Also if the cookie less tracking is good as made out, why are you using cookies?

When we launched the network the cookie-less system was not in place so some programs were set to lifetime cookies, 365 day cookies and database tracking (using cookies) so we can't abandon the cookie tracking without causing a knock on effect... So our cookieless is as you say a "back up" and is currently finding around 10% of users without the other forms of tracking.

One last question, is this new tracking working on all Merchants or just some of them.. and if I was to turn off my cookies and order stuff would it work? Or do other factors have to be in play?

We introduced cookie-less after we launched the network so not all merchants are using it... I've been upgrading the remaining few merchants this week, so I think about 95% are using it. All will be upgraded soon.

The only cookie-less tracking on other networks that I'm aware of is IP, session tracking and database tracking (which uses cookies that are not on the users computer)... We believe it is a breakthrough and I'm sure in time others will follow because the industry needs cookie-less for reasons already covered.

[Supercod]

Thanks for the reply. And you are very correct, real alternatives to cookies have to be forth coming and ideally easy for merchants to work with or better still have little or no input from them

I know the buy.at guys have a tracking solution coming out or it may already be in use as I see them doing cool stuff and not bothering to tell anyone and from Paid On Results I have seen 1 of the 2 new tracking backups tested (we are running a secret test to see what number of sales it catches) and looking forward to them going live and I won’t be shy with the details when we do as I am not that bothered if others do it as well, I do truly believe that good practice by all can only be very good for the Industry. The way us lot in the UK dealt with spyware was streets ahead of the US people who still fight with each other over it to this day.

By the way I once done a test on javascript call back versus call back image and was very interesting, so interesting (compared to effort to implement) that POR was the first network to insist that merchants have both call back methods on there order completion page. That’s not a secret as anyone can view the source code to see what networks have with regards to call back scripts on merchant’s sites.

[Rich]

I do agree that networks should give more details of the systems they have in place, both for tracking and ensuring uptime. It's quite easy to create a system that you believe is totally reliable that a fresh pair of eyes would find flaws in.

The sort of ideas Clarke mentions, like having multiple types of tracking codes on a merchant's site, seems like a very logical move to me. Normally I'd avoid Javascript like anything, as it is disabled on a surprising number of machines, but there are times when it would work when a tracking pixel might get blocked.

I just struggle to see how a tracking system can be made as reliable without some data to unique identify a machine (i.e. a cookie). POR have probably said the most about their cookie less solutions and I've always got the impression that its there as a backup to the cookie but isn't expected to be as reliable. It would still increase the total proportion of sales that should track being tracked. This fits in with what I see as feasible.

Webgains' tracking is probably the one I know least about. I looked at it when they first launched and saw that it was based on the same system as Awin use, it looks like it has changed a little since then. When I looked at the implementation when TopOffer launched it didn't seem like the call-back would get shown for most users.

I've also just spotted one bug while looking into the tracking. If a visitor clicks a link that an affiliate isn't active on (I found it on links I hadn't applied to, e.g. click.html?wgcampaignid=1102&wgprogramid=102, but it may also affect when an affiliate is removed from a program) then all the wgc cookies are reset with an expires time on an hour ago, i.e. the cookies are deleted.

Ryan, you say the cookie-less system tracks 10% of users that the cookie system doesn't track, can you say how many the cookie system tracks that the cookie-less system misses? That would give a much better idea of how accuate the cookie-less system is.

[Ryan Gilbert]

Ryan, you say the cookie-less system tracks 10% of users that the cookie system doesn't track, can you say how many the cookie system tracks that the cookie-less system misses? That would give a much better idea of how accuate the cookie-less system is.

The cookie-less system will work in around 98% of web browsers and in around 95% of clickthroughs. So I would hope that the other tracking methods "cookie/IP/referrer/session/database tracking" will cover the few that cookie-less will miss. I don't think there will ever be a 100% guaranteed from a network that all transactions will track but we have tested this for some time now and we seem to of closed the gap that cookies were leaving.

If you want to know more about how the cookie-less tracking works, please chat to Peter Dunham peter[at]webgains.com.