Google Analytics

**Another Media** · 13-12-05

For those of you who like to test and measure:

http://www.google.com/analytics/

**pricethat** · 13-12-05

Quite a few people are using this already and i know my comments wont help too much but i did want to raise an issue or two that may not of been looked at.

If you use google analytics then your giving google all the information they would or could ever need to take your site down, or indeed raise its profile depending on which way they want to go. It really is that good for a reason, imagine the market data that they are collecting with this thing.

I know free is free but to give google that kind of information about your site, your visitors the keywords used etc is just feeding the giant too much in my opinion, of course there is nothing to stop them purchasing isp data and collecting the information´without your approval but do we as affiliates really want to feed a company so much that it almost assumes complete control of the internet, or at least the marketing side of it. I fear it will come to a stage one day when they dont include people in serp information unless we do provide information to them.

Just food for thought.

**mibut** · 13-12-05

Agree with PriceThat.
Google started as a brilliant search engine cocking a snoot at the established players and acting as a "fully paid up member" of the "free" internet.
Now I find Google scarier than the former big bad bear, Microsoft.
Google holds vast amounts of data and information on companies and individuals, and can do whatever it likes with that information.
Google already has the power to close many online businesses, giving it more information through "analytics" I see as commercial suicide.

**JMJ** · 13-12-05

I do think it's right to be concerned over the information that we are offering to an organisation like google but i think it's important to weigh up the value we get out of something like analytics in return for what we pay (ie. the information we give them back).

My opinion is that a tool like analytics (which of course used to be packaged and sold for a premium as urchin) is worth the valuable info that you give google back.

It's also about trust and the fact that google is a very larger publicly answerable company so i don't personally expect any foul play with the data. I really don't believe they have any interest or concern for using data from individual sites - i would of course expect them to use data on (large) clusters of sites.

**pricethat** · 13-12-05

Well of course you always add up the value of what we get from them, but you have to define value. Do you choose the no money down option with very very high repayment costs, or pay a very sensible amount for a service which wont end up killing you.

Not to put an end of the world theory on to things but the current business model of google is to slowly, and i mean slowly condition its site users into a way of thinking on the internet.

Natural listings in the left for non commercial and targetted commercial ads which are more relevant in the right (if that wasnt true and customers didnt believe that when buying something then we wouldnt get so much traffic would we from ppc listings)

Using this information the theory is that they can literally, shut off websites from their indexes completely, but more likely is that if a merchant is targetting traffic to a certain page via ppc, then google could use that information to remove that page from natural serps (after all the merchant is paying to show that page, whats the point in giving him a free listing as well, uses more space when he is already there)

Also google could use the information of traffic going to that page from a competitor like overture and espotting as another indicator to drop the page/site. As it is a free service its not as if they can be done for anti competitive actions.

There is an unlimited amount of things that google can do with this information, i sat here just off the top of my head and rambled at least 10 things that could really kill any merchants business if they so chose to. But thats the thing, it wont kill the merchants business, what it will do is just force the merchant to pay more to be in the same game.

So wheres the value in you giving google more information than it needs to OWN most of the commercial internet? The only benefit that this information could possibly have to them is financial benefit or at least a means to a financial benefit, thats what they have to do, they are a PLC.

**JMJ** · 13-12-05

I appreciate they could do all of those things but just don't think they will. They may deviate sometimes from the 'no evil' approach but some of the things you are suggesting would be complete u-turns and i just don't see them doing that.

I don't buy the idea that google will turn into an evil devious company, they're just around to make an honest bottom line profit like everyone else. They're sharp of course, that's why we give our collective data in return for what was a $1000 a month service. And of course they tweek their algos with it, and cross sell adwords, and monitor what overture are doing etc.. Not saying things don't happen with the data.

**Shane** · 13-12-05

"but i think it's important to weigh up the value we get out of something like analytics in return for what we pay"

very true I don't think it's worth it.. would you open your stats to a fellow affiliate ? tell him what you are telling google by using this tracking ?

Personally I'd never use it, If you were buying advertising from anywhere else would you have an open book on the conversion ratio, customer value, etc. with them.. so they know exactly how much you are making out of their service.. I think not but basically with this tool.. as good as it might be.. users are just enabling google to see the full picture.

Check out this article http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/12/prweb320588.htm and see if you then think it's a good deal depending how the future in online marketing shapes .. google should be paying us to use it for the data they are gleaning for later use.. who says you are going to be benefiting in a year from the data you are letting them have access to at all..

The internet is a constantly evolving marketplace and will continue to do so.. business models that seem cast in stone now could be gone without trace in a year.

Imagine pay per lead with direct merchant relationships.. aff's out of the picture and you pay for a lead from google as a merchant instead of a click as an affiliate.. in effect google has become the affiliate.. they know exactly what the converstion ratios are so who do you think would get the biggest slice out of the deal ?

Might not happen ... but then again...

murphy's law seems to have come into effect with google lately.

**thetafferboy** · 13-12-05

Some points for those who are scared of Analytics:

* Do you use AdSense on your website? Google can pull *exactly* the same stats from your site as if you put the Analytics code on

* Googles privacy policy specifically states that any data that the Analytics collects, will only be used to stat generation and nothing else

* If Google does want to use this information, it will very likely integrate it with it's next ranking alogrithm.

Along with Google Sitemaps, give google all the information about your site that you can, or you'll be left behind.

**Shane** · 13-12-05

"Googles privacy policy specifically states that any data that the Analytics collects, will only be used to stat generation and nothing else"

let me guess.. you even trust politicians too

**stevey** · 13-12-05

Originally Posted by JMJ

They may deviate sometimes from the 'no evil' approach but some of the things you are suggesting would be complete u-turns and i just don't see them doing that.

This motto is reverse psychology at its best. Don't be fooled by what people say or promise, just watch what they do and their tracks and then you can see where they are heading.

As a general rule it's never wise to give all your information about yourself to all asunder. You just leave yourself open to being s.....

stevey

**drivetowin** · 13-12-05

Good to see there's no such thing as affiliates being paranoid....

What makes you think they cant gather the information they get from Google Analytics from your sites anyway?

OK so yes Google Analytics tells them how many people come to my site for a particular keyword (but they can probably get that from their stats anyway)

OK so it tells them what pages of my site they go to (but almost all my pages have adsense on so they can probably get that info from their stats anyway)

And they can tell which affiliate links people click on (ok they probably couldnt get that bit before (or could they??))

But they still dont know which of those people go ahead and actually buy anything - and thats the vital bit of information you need to complete the circle and make the other data worth anything commercially.

For me the information Google Analytics provides about user behaviour on my site is invaluable - if Google gain a little bit of info from that information too - good luck to them - but as I only rely on Google for a small amount of my traffic I'm pretty sure the info they're giving me for free is of far more value to me than any info they're getting from me is worth to them.

**thetafferboy** · 13-12-05

Originally Posted by Shane

"Googles privacy policy specifically states that any data that the Analytics collects, will only be used to stat generation and nothing else"

let me guess.. you even trust politicians too

Well, I'm not sure I like the slant of that comment, but since you asked....

First off, I understood that Google may (even though I doubt it) go against it's own privacy policy, break the law and use the information for it's own "evil" means. If you read my post, I stated on the next line that the information would probably be used in Google's new ranking algorithm as their primary mission since day 1 and the creaton of Backrub has been to gather and sort information. Since you don't use Analytics, does this mean you don't use Google Sitemaps, or Google AdSense on any of your sites? You release this allows Google to obtain data from your site as well? Unless you're still using Altavista for your searching?

You don't really have a choice when it comes to picking the big boys now, Google has its fingers in lots of pies and is essential to your online presence, it will be around for a while. They've given us the best search on the net and some damn fine tools, why is it you want to fight them on this? Do you think any potential losses that analytics may hypothetically cause you will be as big as forking out for WebTrends monthly? The answer is no. I am well aware of the disadvantages of monopolies, but Google has been the first decent challenger to Microsoft, proving if you have a good idea, with the Internet as a medium, any company can be shaken.

Sorry, but they're not taking any new signups at the moment :P

**mibut** · 13-12-05

But they still dont know which of those people go ahead and actually buy anything - and thats the vital bit of information you need to complete the circle and make the other data worth anything commercially.

How do you know that they dont know this.
With Googles geek power I would have thought it was fairly easy to see when a user goes to a https page.

**stevey** · 13-12-05

Originally Posted by kbudden

Good to see there's no such thing as affiliates being paranoid....

It's not paranoia. I have various sites covering very different industries. From studying patterns I have learnt that Google is my friend and also my enemy. It wasn't always this way, but it is now. For those that haven't been trampled on yet does not mean that they won't be, even with the most popular/white hat/best original content/most linked to site, etc. It can happen to anyone at the blink of a switch.

Originally Posted by kbudden

but as I only rely on Google for a small amount of my traffic I'm pretty sure the info they're giving me for free is of far more value to me than any info they're getting from me is worth to them.

That's exactly it. It depends on your site/s and what you could possibly gain or lose. Some people could have an awful lot to lose and to others it doesn't really matter. Each one has to weigh up and decide if it's worth it for them. I can see the pros and cons for both sides of the arguement but personally for my sites I think it would be detrimental.

stevey

**drivetowin** · 13-12-05

Originally Posted by stevey

For those that haven't been trampled on yet does not mean that they won't be, even with the most popular/white hat/best original content/most linked to site, etc. It can happen to anyone at the blink of a switch.

My comment was more than a little tongue in cheek

I agree with you that it could happen to any of us, I just dont happen to believe that using or not using Google Analytics will make one jot of difference over whether a site is/is not affected.