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Old 23-10-06
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  Credit cards/loans etc.. and PPC help

Hi,

I'm just building a finance rate comparison website to market with PPC and having advertised for northern rock through Smart quotes in the past I know that a lot of the companies I will be promoting on the site report on their sales a month or more in arrears.

Is this the case for most finance products on all networks and can anyone tell me how does this work with PPC. eg.. if im spending £1+ a click on hundreds of keywords for over a month and it turns out my traffic isnt converting at all I'll lose a fortune, i'm a bit of a gambler by nature but to have no idea for over a month seems a big risk even by my standards.

Can anyone advise if im wrong about this or will I really have to just test it very slowly for a few months to get my average epc before throwing cash at it?

Please help - family to feed!

Russ
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Old 23-10-06
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sadly you're correct, softly softly - (or just promote other merchants!)
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Old 23-10-06
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are there merchants with instant feedback then or at least reporting that shows the numbers of applications as I could work with that but to have no stats at all for months is a nause. Especially doing ppc on google, to get my ctr up and costs down I'll need to be quite aggressive to start with, slowly slowlys going to be V difficult!

Cheers

Russ
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Old 23-10-06
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I wouldn't work on a pay-per-sale basis as a PPC venture, as you are then relying on how well those merchants can convert the leads you send them which is out of your control (and you have to trust them 100% to accurately report the figures).

If you are mainly doing PPC, I would look for a CPA deal where the merchant validates every few days so you know exactly what your return is. Then you won't have to wait as long before you can increase your PPC campaign. Just beware of loopholes that merchants can use to delete your leads, - eg. 'we pay for every confirmed lead' - could mean anything from the applicant having to sign an application form and return it, or just that they have to be Catholic
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Old 23-10-06
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"over a month seems a big risk even by my standards."

yup welcome to finance ppc.. a sector where you can spend a fair few quid a click and most merchants have sites that deal with hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of traffic with less tracking and reporting infrastructure to them then an affiliate would do on one of his own sites doing a hundred quid a day.

Even long term epc's can suddenly dip with no visible reason or explanation and all you'll get from some mercants is a shrug of indifference, also the odd finance merchants is happy to change cookie periods or application criteria without much notification too so you need to keep your eye on the ball too.

I usually do a releative increasing spend on finance after a tester ...eg £1k first month, then see what happens (could take 2 months to find out if so spend no more than you did in first month till stats come in) then second month I spend whatever it made and say £1K again (if it made a profit) say it made £1k profit I'd spend £2k the next month, and then if it made £2k I'd spend £4k then..etc.. figures may change but theory doesn't.

worst case scenario is you loose your bankroll of 1k and the profit to date but not your shirt like you could do if you just went all in at it and max ppc'd it and spent £xxK and each month till the stats came in.

month 1 ... spend 1k
month 1 ....earn 1k profit

month 2 ...spend 2k
month 2 ... earn 2k

month 3.. spend 4k
month 3 .. earn 4k

simplistic figures but you get the idea, invest what you've earned plus your initial stake also you'd need enough budget to stand it as it could take 3 months to actually get credited with month 1's money but if you trust the merchant/network then go for it, if not wait till paid before reinvesting the cash lol.

once the volume or ROI tops out you take your profit each month take your profit then/ expand your ppc again, sometimes you're better off maxing the ROI rather than the spend so try and track by keyword if possible using LID123/UID123/SID123 etc, why spend £7k at 30% if you can spend £5k at 60% etc and use the other £2k elsewere and make more of it.

But make sure you don't pass ppc keyword data to merchants by "link id = keyword" as most of us have horror stories of spending thousands only to find we are asked to stop bidding a month or two in and the merchant pops up on the main keywords that convert !

You'd be wise to start towards the end of a month for a tester ... do 2 or 3 programs .. for a week or so and stop till the stats come in and see which is worth pushing,

good luck but personally I'd be looking elsewhere, finance is high figures but better ROI's are available elsewhere with less cash tied up in single campaigns and at such risk.
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Old 23-10-06
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Thanks for the advice guys,

I already do a lot of finance CPA work but this is a new venture for me, I want to spend some of the money i've made building a brand if possible (i'm looking at the future long term now) .

I've got the domain ratescompared.co.uk which is perfect for branding, I may even end up taking the marketing offline to the press in the end to get the brand established even if it means making a loss for a while, branding is key to future resale values and building the brand online wont really work.

Shane thats good advice on the ppc front, I assume most people coming from any of my keywords will go for the best deals in my comparison tables though which should in theory give me only a handfull of merchants to really worry about, tracking keyword conversions sounds hard though if im promoting a table rather than a direct to merchant landing page.

Quote:
You'd be wise to start towards the end of a month for a tester
Thats great advice, id never have thought to do that but now youve said its obvious really.

Any more wisdom anyone could share would be great.

Cheers

Russ
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Old 23-10-06
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"Any more wisdom anyone could share would be great"

umm nope.. . that's all ya get for free outta me lol

happy bidding
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Old 23-10-06
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Ive an idea for you shane, a new site called shanebay.co.uk

Let people bid for your words of wisdom!

seriously though mate the advice was well recieved and will be put into practice.

Any idea why finance merchants cant drop some tracking code on their thank you pages like normal merchants, at least giving us the click to application rate would give us something to work with?

cheers

Russ
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Old 23-10-06
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lol np.. shanebay it is.. bids start at a vodka and coke upwards..

"Any idea why finance merchants cant drop some tracking code on their thank you pages like normal merchants"

yup .. transparancy... if you don't know your app volume then you've no idea how bad the cancellation ratio is have you ? all you see is the bottom line figure...

Some merchants just don't like the transparency live tracking brings I guess, it's the only thing I can think of as there is certainly no viable reason otherwise, a kazillion other merchants in a bazillion other sectors have no problem with tracking sales in real time, and here we're only talking about tracking a one off action in most cases, no shopping cart or vouchers or discount codes etc.. just a simple pixel on the thank you page

I'm happy for somebody with a more technical brain please correct me if I'm wrong though
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Old 24-10-06
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Ask the networks for a network epc figure for your merchants. That should give you something to work with.

Also ask for min. & max. epc figures. (ignoring low volume affiliates)

Good luck! If you're looking to build your brand then you may have to take some losses bidding on the high volume terms, bidding against the merchants and secured loan affiliates.
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