Avery disappointing story

[affearner]

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Yesterday our Affiliate Manager had to fire a #1 affiliate for a certain program -- let's call this Program L -- in our network. Here is what transpired.

Since the first of the year our AM have been trying to police the trademark bidding by affiliates on Program L. This is further complicated because 4 dealers have special privileges and can trade mark bid. Policing includes Google, Yahoo and MSN.

So our AM started with Google AdWords and have been warning affiliates to not trade mark bid but we do allow them to bid on the trigger terms. The super affiliate actually educated our AM on geo targeting and day parting. The super affiliate poached on terms and our AM would send an email or call to discuss. They even met at Affiliate Summit in Miami.

In the last two weeks our AM have been heavily monitoring G/Y/M and writing daily warnings to affiliates who are trademark poaching. All have complied and some even asked me to approve ad copy. He was leveling the playing field and trying to get some push back on the dealers as well.

So, the top affiliate continues to trademark poach. Monday it all came to a head. Not only is the affiliate poaching but it is now doing it directly on the trademark. After a call from the CEO of LGL threatened our AM's job he sent a request for the ads to be taken down. This is at least the 6th time our AM have made such requests. Also this is on the heels of emails and a phone conversation last week.

Chain of events Monday:

9:03 AM warning sent.
9:06 AM 2nd ad found and additional warning sent.
2:42 PM Removal from Little Giant Ladder program email sent.
2:53 PM Network email that account has been declined sent.
2:53 PM email from affiliate asking ???

Our AM did not call because we had the same conversation the week before. The affiliate did call our AM upset that our AM would do this. They parted company and yes our AM removed the affiliate from all programs that we manage.

Why would an affiliate who made great commissions, given the highest commission rate and had a personal relationship with the AM so blatantly put trademark violations in our AM's face?

[Travel Pixel]

greed?

to massage their ego?

money does funny things to some people!

[Shane]

they do it probably because they are getting away with it on virturally all other networks on a load of programs so it's only natural to think that your aff manager wouldn't be watching too closely.

brand/trademark bidding was strictly enforced at one point by netwrorks (ok i say strictly, more like half heartedly.."ohh stop it.. you've been told, don't make me tell you another 5 times before you stop for a month")

now the punishment is akin to being licked by a slobbering labrador and more likely to result in a "stop that bidding NOW... And wait till after 5.30 in future .. ohh and dont forget to bid ALL weekend as no one wil be looking"

Of course It's not ALL networks that are lax, but methinks some networks are so staff heavy and override hungry they turn a blind eye and leave the policing up to the merchant and knowingly ignore brand bidding until prodded by the merchant to take action.

As I look at one "No brand bidding" term now, there are 3 guys on it in the daytime and after dark it's like a shark frenzy on there with up to 15 or so affs on it.

Do the two networks running it know about it.. yup ! 110% for sure I know they do as I've asked for clarification twice about brand bidding on it and the reply was along the lines of "you can't brand bid but if you did then urrrrrmmm we wouldn't "notice" until the client mentioned it to us"

[affearner]

they do it probably because they are getting away with it on virturally all other networks on a load of programs so it's only natural to think that your aff manager wouldn't be watching too closely.

That's right. As of yesterday we already received a lot of emails and phone calls from other networks and AMs that the same person is also giving them some problems.

I really can't understand why some people who are already earning a lot can afford to cheat How frustrating...

[Shane]

I really can't understand why some people who are already earning a lot can afford to cheat How frustrating...

Thing is some of them earn far more by being dodgy as most networks don't really actively monitor any bidding and rarely withhold commissions, even more rarely remove affiliates all together so it's a risk v reward where risk is small and reward is big.

It's a case of do you bid on expensive generics with say 25-50 other affs or do you go dodgy and bid on 1000 program's brands against say another 5 affs instead.. sure you'll get nailed occasionally but on a ROI basis it's a very small cost of doing business.

Basically for some lazy affiliates being dodgy is easier than being straight now and there's not much in the form of punishment going on.

[Flightmapping]

"Avery disappointing story" - just checking that that's a typo. Don't think you can hold me on anything ppc related though .

But if not, let's get the gloves off .

[derrekmay]

That's a disappointing story yes, but you have some kind of people who will do anything for money.. For them you can't have enough money and they'll use everything they can to reach they're goal.

[Flightmapping]

"That's a disappointing story yes, but you have some kind of people who will do anything for money.."

Derek,

I wasn't commenting on the thread as a whole. Unfortunately, this kind of thing does happen, I can't comment much on this issue because we don't do PPC, but if there's lots of money floating around, I can see how people get carried away. Not condoning what's happened, and glad you've told the person where to go - but there's a few of us here who've been around long enough to know how these things can get messy.

I was just checking that you meant "A very", that's all. Put the two words together and you get my surname . I think I've behaved myself ok lately, but then again, hmm. Facebook. OK, let's plea the 5th.

Some of us will do anything .........

[affearner]

Flightmapping: Sorry for the typo but I already corrected it.

I think the person's ego was hit very badly that we're all requested to be very vigilant re his next actions. I'm pretty sure he will do everything to get even.

[renegade]

We can all make mistakes but this affiliate is clearly deliberately taking the p*ss. I didn't realise things were as bad as Shane pointed out but he's right that if the punishment isn't there it will keep happening.

[lowndsy]

Some people do it repeatedly any way - some people have been thrown off each network several times for brand poaching, but there is money in it so they just keep coming back.

[jess1]

Dont let one rotten apple upset the cart, learn from this and move on
When you remove the affiliates commissions for breaking your ts and cs, message hits home quick enough ;0)

Js

[D-Mac]

When you remove the affiliates commissions for breaking your ts and cs, message hits home quick enough ;0)

You would hope so, yes, but in my experience this isn't always the case:

A certain affiliate programme I used to look after prohibited brand name bidding. One guy decided he would do it anyway, and despite sending repeated email warnings, I received no reply. Eventually I reversed his commissions and set his rate to 0%, but the ads still stayed there. I couldn't get in touch with the guy either by email or phone. He sent us free traffic for several months!

[jess1]

Ok... well in that scenario, the affiliate is paying for the ads and get 0 commission, sit back and let the traffic come in for free :0) So long as the ad is not misleading.

This is something a lot of merchants forget (sorry I just wanted to get a balance) affiliates put their hand into their own pockets and take the risks.

Aff networks are so quick these days to respond to things like this, I have to take my hat off to awin and por and affut, in fact I think... they have sorted pretty much within less then a couple of hours.

Its not easy to police all the time... but, we are winning the battle, in my opinion.

[APAMikeB]

In my experience, people who know it's against the rules but do it anyway are "passive cheaters". Especially in this industry where we rarely face our associates eye to eye, it's too easy for someone to bend the rules if deep down they may only be confronted via email, if at all. For better or for worse, a lot of what we do still relies on good, old-fashioned trust. Following through and "firing" an affiliate or merchant who has been on notice is not only warranted, but a good example toward trying to preserve the trust.