LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With QuoteLOL, how true.Originally Posted by aotagain
Somebody proposed a "rant-of-the-week" award recently.
I'd vote for that one.
Agree 100%. I can't get my head around why all these discount codes and voucher codes are all over the place online. It seems like the 'normal' control over brand use and development has completely gone out of the window with a lot of merchants.
Cut prices, discounts and deals and offers every week isn't the only way to get market share for goodness sake.
And by the way, supermarkets, if you're watching, no I do not want 'Cash-back' at the checkout.
Its not cash back. Its my money from my bank account, so you are not doing me some sort of odd favour, thank you very much.
</rant>
LOL, how true.
Somebody proposed a "rant-of-the-week" award recently.
I'd vote for that one.
Ok doing a very quick rec
affiliate x using a unique voucher code belonging to an authorised aff. (the voucher code is the name of the affs website, so I don’t buy the whole “I did no know” as has been suggested by a third party).
Sale amount £2,745.77
Commission £ £329.61
Another aff voucher used is 65 times out of 74 transactions.
The merchant is still getting sales, but merchant not happy as in their seo, all that’s coming up is this one affiliate where by the term xxxx is his domain name, thus the merchant feels they are now being perceived as a discount store.
The affiliate x is getting commissions, happy affiliate.
The affiliate authorised code was set up as a strategic partnership (incentive to get them promoting merchant x) is quite rightly not happy. This code was unique to them for the following reasons.
1. APA use the distribution of voucher codes to trusted parties only. Why? Because we know there are rogue affs out there and I don’t want to give any one (merchant or press) a platform to slate our industry.
2. APA issue voucher codes as a form of leverage to get new affiliates onboard (in turn helps the aff network grow) Helps the merchant grow, but also increases the credibility of the aff site in their visitors eyes.
3. APA are quite clear when issuing generic (public) voucher codes that the affiliate has to display an expiry date
4. APA state clearly if you want a unique voucher code, contact us.
The point here, is that affiliate x could not be bothered to contact me for his own unique code, its not like we cant be found and considering he is an affiliate in this forum, I see no excuse (affiliate x in this example is not MCO)
Now to address the assumption that affiliates may not be able to differentiate between a public code or a unique code in my mind a cop out. Is the affiliate to inept that he/she cant just contact the merchant, the network, the agency for clarification if in doubt? It’s not like no one responds, post something on this forum and there is a reply in minutes. Most networks, merchants and agencies are like lightening to respond these days.
Having an aff site where the general public can post voucher codes (which is not part of affiliate x business model, but hey… lets assume for a minute that it is) This is simply asking for trouble if the affiliate is not doing his/her due diligence.
Also if affiliates have requested unique voucher codes and not been given one, there is 99.9% good reason as to why that is. Sulking and stealing others will just further reinforce why they were not given one in the first place which will could lead to being suspended from affiliate programs.
What is coming over loud and clear is that some affiliates are thinking about the immediate financial gratification rather then thinking how this is messing peoples marketing budgets, stats and outside world perceptions, it can also potentially screw up a strategic affiliate alliance and undo months of work and negotiation. So on this premise, the doors will start to close on affiliates who don’t take responsibility for what they promote and if you ask me, if affiliates are in the habit of promoting things that they have not researched prior, then today it could be about unique discount vouchers tomorrow you may have a law suit on your hands.
OK, that reads like you're advising a merchant to whom this has happened - Correct?
Apologies if that's not so - but the point still has merit.
1. Does the merchant's T&C say "don't use exclusive codes that have not been explicity issued to you"?
2. If so, does it say what will happen if you breach No 1 above?
3. Does the network have a term like 1 above?
4. If so, does it have a term like 2 above?
If the answer to all 4 questions is no, neither you, your client nor the network have a leg to stand on and all of you have been negligent (IMHO of course)
AM exists to fill the gaps the merchant can't or neglects to cover so you have to expect some "opportunism" on the part of affiliates. If some types of opportunism are not allowed, say so in the T&C. Otherwise, swallow it, learn from it and move on.
None of that is intended to imply that an aff who lifts exclusive codes is morally correct.
My point is that if none of the points 1 to 4 above have been covered, all three parties left the door open in the first place. Stop beating the horse for bolting - just bolt the door from now on.
For what it's worth, I believe "exclusive codes" should be exclusive to the aff to whom they were issued and merchants and/or networks should have a protocol for dealing with abuse of them, just like they do for spyware, cookie stuffing, email spam, etc.
"OK, that reads like you're advising a merchant to whom this has happened - Correct?" Yes and also fitted in re with the start of this thread, but this is not about my client, merely, I used an example by way of highlighting the knock on effects, which some may not have thought about. Yes agree completely re Ts and Cs btw.
I think the reason why its coming to the fore is that there seems to be a rise in such affiliate practices and the G/public too. Seems that today AMs and Networks and Merchants have to operate like the wizard of Oz, pushing buttons and levers just to maintain control.
I agree Ts and Tcs will cover the consequence but it does not stop the practice.
If the job of the merchant, network and AMs ends up 99% fire fighting, daily and weekends, then at some point the door will close on something and I bet you it wont be the merchants offline PR.
Jess
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think part of the problem though is that the networks generally do not take a hard enough line with people who break the rules - if an affiliate knowingly has unauthorised codes on their website, and it is not a very rare occurance for that affiliate to do so (and we all know websites where unauthorised codes appear day after day) then to my mind it is not enough for the affiliate to remove affiliate links from those codes they should not have yet still keep all their other affiliate links - if they break the rules that blatantly then just boot the affiliate off the network full stop. I also think that networks should do more to share a 'black list' of bad affiliates so that those affiliates who continually break the rules cannot simply network hop.
I'm not saying that all of us who run voucher sites do not on occassion have a voucher code which 'slips through the net', it would be silly to suggest otherwise, but, at the same time, it should not be difficult for networks to separate the occassional offender from the hardened rule breaker.
Of course I know a lot of this is asking turkeys to drop their ballot paper into the Christmas box, but unless and until it happens the bad apples will make the whole affiliate fruit punch turn sour - some networks need to wake up and realise that short term gain could well turn to long term pain.
Never argue with idiots. They just drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
If ignorance is bliss then some of the people I know must be orgasmic.
Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about!
If a merchant intends to use a voucher system then why not make them available to all to use. Why issue to selected few making the playing field uneven.
I dont buy it as 'rewarding performances' as higher commissions are ther reward surely.
From a merchant perspective it's about controlling cost of sale, on two fronts:
a) if you give a code to one particular site which lets say, generates 10 sales a day for you, then you will cost in that lets say a 10% discount is going to apply to 8 sales a day, and that's a margin you can carry - what you can't necessarily carry is a 10% discount on all of your sales - if you like, the discounted sales are designed to act as a loss leader, not to be the mainstay of your sales.
b) (and probably more common) - as a merchant you pay affiliates 10% commission - you agree with affiliate A that you will pay them 5% commission but will also give them a 5% discount code - net effect to you as a merchant is zero, the cost of sale is still the same only the distribution of that cost is different.
The problem comes when affiliates B,C and D copy affiliate A's code - as you still pay them the normal 10% commission and now your cost of sale has just increased by over 5% - for many merchants that situation is not sustainable.
Agreed a way round that would be for the merchant to say if you use discount code xxx your commission will be 5% and not 10% for all affiliates but that currently on I think all networks (though someone may correct me) would have to be a manual reconciliation process, so either way you look at it an increased cost of sale for the merchant.
Merchants should always have the right imho to determine which affiliates carry a discount - it's no different to the high street, a high street store with branches in more than one location may well offer a discount in location a which is not available in location b, purely down to local factors.
Never argue with idiots. They just drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
If ignorance is bliss then some of the people I know must be orgasmic.
Hi Steve, I think keith has highlighted it, however I can confirm that many of the unique codes I have on my site come in exchange for a lower commission payment from the sale. This is why its annoying to see other affiliates who are prob being paid full commission, stealing the codes issued to me.
Ta
Bagpages: : If we go back to the start of this thread an affiliate/s was a little annoyed that another affiliate was using his voucher code. I doubt if there are many affiliates who would not find that a tad annoying.
Drivetowin: u beat me to it so I wont go over the same ground.
I do think its not just a them and us scenario, its about all of us collectively taking responsibility for our own parts in customer to sale path. Ensuring, we are not misleading or participating in a practice that has a financial consequence on the bottom line margin of the merchant. The merchant has the control over who, what, where and when and we need to respect that.
Whether merchants should or shouldn't make codes available to anyone and everyone is a separate issue. Its up the the merchant how they want to set up deals with particular affiliates, exactly as they can choose whether to advertise on ITV or channel 4.
We may not like it as affiliates, but in the real world some sites are far more valuable to merchants than others. Plus some merchants must dread the idea of particular sites pushing them, if the association is way off the merchants set of quality standards for its products. As it is the playing field is already equal in a lot of cases as there are still huge numbers of merchants where you get automatic acceptance.
If merchants don't have any choice over who they can issue codes to and under what terms, then a lot of them aren't going to bother. If they think we're messing up their promotions, they'll think again about the general approval process. Then we can look forward to waiting for approval for every single merchant application.
There is no rule that says all affiliates should be treated equally - that would be bizarre, given that we are actually just another marketing channel. As we are acting as agents for the merchants, its already unusual to have the % commission out in front for all to see. Most agent agreements are confidential - ours aren't.
The issue here is to do with affiliates sticking to the rules or bending them, once the rules are clear. Making the rules clear is the key thing imo and having a set of boundaries which carry penalties if you cross them.
Our channel is presumably 'sold' to the merchants as being responsible and not a free for all group of market traders. imo we have to make sure that that is not a misrepresentation of our profession.
PS I can't think of any other circumstance where huge numbers of people are effectively told by a company: "Go and sell our products and our image in whatever way you want". The worst thing that could possibly happen is that good affiliates get constrained by the equivalent of FSA regulations in restricting what creative we can run on all the non-financial merchant programmes.
Received today from one of my clients "Hi Jess, please can you remove this affiliate? A) they are offering a discount that we do not fulfil and it is confusing our customers. B) would like to ban them from a brand point of view anyway so please cancel.
You know what, how can I fight the affiliates corner when there are affiliates like this?
If affiliates are given a code, its simple make sure the expiry date is clear. If you are not given a voucher code, there is probably a good reason why. If luring customers into your site with a voucher code that does not even exist, it’s wrong! I doubt if Ill ever get another discount voucher for affiliates again with this client. So its time for affiliates to get rid of the rogue elements that just keep dragging us down. It takes just one rotten apple to spoil it for the rest. It was so hard persuading this client to give voucher codes out in the first place. Im not going to name and shame as it will just become a witch hunt. But this really gets me down! All it does is provide amo to tarr all affiliates with the same brush.
Rant over as you were
Jess... how can things change if on one hand you suggest we should unite to rid the rogue elements, but at the same time you won't name and shame those who are rogue?
The single biggest bugbear I have with this industry is that everything gets nicely tidied away and we're all too nice to say "here's the evidence, here's the truth"
You can't change things or begin to demonstrate to people what is wrong if no one knows who's causing the problems!
Jason
I think its important to keep this issue at the front of people's minds, in order for the decent voucher code sites to actually deliver valuable business for merchants.
In another capacity of affiliate manager, I've just discovered a dedicated page for our business on a voucher code site. We have in fact never issued any codes and the bit where you discover that we haven't got any is well down the page after the usual several paragraphs of blurb about our company.
Usual suspect.
Not acceptable and a misrepresentation of our business.
And do you, by any chance, have to click for a cookie before you get told there's no voucher code?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks