Radio 2 - Making Money Online & Cashback Websites

[ChrisJohnson]

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Have to agree with you, Jason - Paid to Click is definitely not the way to go to promote cashback sites.

We value our close working relationship with Agencies/Networks/Merchants and with issues like program loopholes which Martin touched upon is something that we do not allow and constantly monitor, and any sign of a loophole appearing for an offer we let the relevant people know and 'police' the situation as one.

As mentioned at a4uexpo, there are over 90 cashback sites of differing quality and age working in this channel, and perhaps it should be up to the established players to self-regulate these issues - which is what the newly launched loyalty association should hope to achieve.

scifind - MSE doesn't use our in-house program (which offers a rev-share) but runs through our network program instead.

[fizzbird]

... although later on he tells a onemanandhisvan site owner that he can cash via google adsense and affiliate marketing.

Yes, it was interesting that the guy with the website said he wasn't making any money from adsense? Apparently he has had 20 unique visitors since setting up his blog two months agao. This is scandalous - surely he should have made a couple of million by now!!!!

[3wdl]

Have to say I'm not a big fan of MSE. Their forum encourages users (and moderators) encourage fraud IMVHO. Does not help affiliate marketing.

[aotagain]

Surely there's a potential big problem with cashback sites, if the public are encouraged to start using them as a habit with incentives to click - an huge number of merchant sales routinely lose margin, while nothing at all is added to their brand. People just buying for the sake of a cash incentive.

If I was a brand manager in anything other than cheapo goods, I would be very concerned if my brand was becoming devalued through association with discounts which I would not otherwise be offering.

A big contrast with an affiliate site that is actually promoting my brand with creative or own content which actually adds something to the offer. I thought at the start of affiliate marketing, we were supposed to be adding something to the user experience and the merchant promotions we did.

imo its only a matter of time before brand managers become more interested in their brands exposure online, in the same way that they control rigourously the presentation of their brand offline, including print colours, logo presentation etc.

Its obviously on the agenda in a few areas, notably ASOS and Direct Line (not cb of course, but somethings prompted them to remove from price-comparison).

Once they take a real interest, I think things will change and I'm just hoping that merchants don't react by just switching off the aff. channel as a whole. Hopefully they'll be selective.

There's also the problem that with an increasing proportion of customers looking for cashbacks, a lot of affiliates won't have the resources to implement cashback on their own sites to compete. Whether that would be a wise move or not is another matter - an affiliate site with loyal visitors is a brand and one would have to ask whether gain through cashback would turn out to be a short-term benefit with bad longer term consequences.

Personally, hell will freeze over before we ever offer cashback incentives to our visitors.
Fortunately there are still shoppers out there who just want to shop for what they want and don't need to be bunged a couple of quid for doing it.

I also happen to think that cashback is drawing off commissions that many other affiliates would otherwise have had. Loyal customer would have bought, but changes mind because they can get cashback, so they leave your site having read about the product and go to their favourite cashback site instead.

Yes, tough, its a competitive world etc. etc. OK. I don't think its going to last.
Probably get flamed for saying that !

[loquax]

I also happen to think that cashback is drawing off commissions that many other affiliates would otherwise have had

Fully agree with this and many of the points you raise above.... the thing is many internet users assume you're earning cash for anything and everything you do on your site (our users thought we were paid for every click they did for example), your server is free, your time and staff are working for free, and that "all will be fine" if they collect their cashback AND happily use your free updated 24/7 service as well.

Sensible affiliates though may well have seen this coming and made sure that new revenue streams were developed away from the main affiliate networks

The positive slant though is having spoke to networks at Expo they're keen to make sure content sites are part of the affiliate mix, realise that AM is not just PPC and cashback and hopefully a fine balance can be achieved that keeps the arena competitive and not dominated by a few.

Still, keeps being a publisher/affiliate/site owner all fun eh?

Jason

[aotagain]

Nice to hear the networks view is to keep a mix. Probably a wise commercial move - it wouldn't be good to be in a position where they couldn't offer good content sites for merchants, if (when?) the merchants start to specifically ask for them.

Know what you mean about new revenue streams - if the content and visitor base is good enough, there are companies who will pay much better than a banner rate for decent exposure !

[wwwb]

Will the future bring a time when a cashback site is so dominant that they could start taking contracts off the networks? Nightmare scenario all round imo

Jude

---
Loquax - The UK Competitions Portal

[Barry]

Both greasypalm and freefivers offer revenue share options kier (thatnks Matt for pointing me out to the freefivers affiliates page, I thought it had disappeared for some reason)

Ta

[Barry]

Just listened to the show now and I can see that he has a good site and good ethics at heart, but I do wonder just how he would feel if I told everyone to go to everyclick, then search for moneysavingexpert - click the top adsense 'and you can make money for charity, from all those 'big businesses' (lets face it the guy is a business in disguise!)?

Seriously I do think that the MSE site is a really good site, really really good! But as a big player he does have more leverage for sure.

He always has 'affiliate restricted' codes on the forum, ones that could be easily spotted and vetted - ie if anyone posts a post with dixons in it then maybe it needs to be looked at(?), but it never is. (I know for sure because staff discount codes for dsg are always available of MSE.) Meanwhile although not directly using affiliate links he is reaping the benefit of publishing those codes plus still advertising through what he deems as 'ethical affiliate links!' like Kelkoo* Pricerunner* Shopping* Rpoints* GreasyPalm* Mutualpoints*

I also slightly resent that he may think that my website, because it has got adds on is is maybe 'unethical' in someway just because I try to monetise my traffic through adds from affiliate networks and adsense. I happen to work for a living and although I think my earnings maybe slightly unethical (I share in my own little ways), my techniques and website content writing and updating is not, its just my job.

Ta

[ep90]

"Money Grabbing Expert" would be a better title for his site. Also, I wonder if a group of super affiliates could approach networks / merchants and encourage them to drop cash back websites. As Jason and others have said, it costs a lot to run site, both in server and PPC cost - just to loose out at the last minute.

Its interesting that most merchants do not allow reoccuring cookie sales, but they are happy to sign up cash back websites.

While I'm on the subject, cash back sites would seem to be free from the restiction of illegal voucher codes that the rest of us have to be so careful with. The likes of HUKD promote many illegal codes and because of this have been kicked off some affilaite programs - however their sister site Quidco (which they massively promote) is still signed up to these programs. "Heres an nice illegal voucher code, feel free to use our cash back website"

[aotagain]

Just out of interest, I wonder how many merchants with money invested in their brands know about their brand being on cashback sites. Perhaps they don't care if the readies keep rolling in. Or perhaps the affiliate managers are judged on performance in money terms and the marketing director hasn't yet got around to finding out exactly how the sales are being generated.

That being said, there are merchants who specifically rule out cashback affiliate sites.

It is frustrating to think that you can spend a long time making your site sticky and useful, only to probably lose a proportion of visitors.

Be nice to find a simply implemented incentive for a visitor to use your own link, rather than leaving.

To be fair, they also leave for voucher code sites, so I guess making sure you are absolutely up to date on the codes helps.