Pandering to affiliates

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Jess

You are a very fair and very balanced person, someone that can see both sides to any argument and has respect for things that are moral and right - to say you pander to “just” affiliates is not true, you help them, educate them and work with them – but you also do this with merchants and networks as well – so perhaps you “pander to all”, but isn’t that a good thing?

You don’t keep your opinions just to yourself, you don’t keep your knowledge just to yourself, you share it and make it work for everyone – if pandering is taking the time to help then I wish more people would pander!

Affiliates, Merchants and Networks - You work with them all, you are fair to all and you deliver to all! If that’s pandering then I would take as a compliment as Nadeem said.

Jon

[km8]

...
I received a lovely email ...

Snipped that bit because it was a bit too cryptic for me.

... do some affiliates understand more about some merchants sectors then the merchants? Did I pluck this out of the air or is it based on fact?

Depends what you you mean.

No question, some affiliates do know far, far more about online promotion than many merchants do.

That doesn't mean they know more about the product, the promotion of it offline, the face-to-face sale of it, the delivery of it, the support of it, etc - but there's no doubt that many affiliates absolutely do know far more about the online promotion of products/services than many merchants do.

As an example, we had a phone call today from a "merchant" who wanted us to delete his company details from our directory-style listing because, and I quote:
"When we search for our company name on Google, a page on your site comes up in the results".

Indeed it does - at number 2 of 58,100 - with his own site occupying number 1 position.

Our page gives his full company name, address, phone number, fax number, mobile, email and webaddress (no affiliate link - just a straight one-way link) and contains no advertising or promotional material, other than for our own site.

Never underestimate the depth of dumbness of the dismally dumb.

[RedHotLee]

Hi Jess - I was in your session at the A4U expo and I thought it was

A) Informative
B) Made a lot of sense
C) What you said and demonstrated in your practical examples has further helped me to see things from an affiliates perspective in a much clearer light - which in turn has helped me to take these learnings and implement them in my daily work life- leading to more positive results in our business.

So - I'd just ignore the e-mail and continue pioneering understanding and better relationship management skills within the affiliate community

I wanted to say thanks and Hi at the end of your session - but got stopped by an old colleague who was also there and then when I looked again - you were gone! :-)

I hope to catch up with you in person soon though at one of the next get togethers to make acquaintances
thanks
Lee-Ann

[jess1]

Ooooopsy daisy... I kinda did not want to turn this into "me" thread, was not the objective. But thanks... wow! And yeah it did get to me, not in an upsetting or even an angry way. But it gave me food for thought. It may sound like Im kissing ass... but I do know how hard it is to be an affiliate (trust me on that) and we have lost a lot of good people over the years, I dont want to see any more leaving because they did not get the support they needed, my job as I see it, is to provide as much support as I can, not so much about why but how, so yeah if this is pandering, then Im a panda or a pimp according to Paul

But I have the stats and the experience to know that some affiliates really do know more then some merchants as per what Sgpratley said. Website conversions, there are some affiliates that I would happily employ over a usability company. There are some affiliates that I would and do employ to help me re software, ppc, organic SEO. In fact, most if not all the people I work with are or have been affiliates, why? Because their experience has been built on proven methods, they have the theory and the practical skills. I trust affiliates more then I trust any other marketing agency because they are not lost to "pass the marketing ball, feel the ball, the ball is our collective creative idea bubble, pass the marketing bubble to the person sitting next to you, let our ideas grow like a bubble, now lets invoice the client 50k for that 15 minute marketing experience" ok maybe not that pretentious but, soooo many companies just ripping merchants off, dont get me started on Dragons Den or Branding agencies. Its ironic that affiliate marketing is one of the most cost effective form of advertising, but affiliates themselves are pretty cost effective as a human resource.

Yeah I did delete, but you know how things can go over in your mind and you get to thinking perhaps you are missing something. Maybe the message was not clear enough, instead of fighting with your affiliates and blaming them for things that go wrong, use them as a resource to put things right, merchants wont find any better out there. Of course there are some affiliates out there that dont play fair, but look... affiliates are starting to get organised and are policing themselves, I dont know if this trend will continue, I hope so.

So thanks again and just call me the affiliate panda

[woutermols]

Jess,

you're a pandering affiliate panda pimp...
Better watch over your shoulder... the WWF might come after you...

[woutermols]

Sorry... couldn't resist...

[jess1]

Oh lol... but Im a bit disturbed too, I look like Noddy

[renegade]

You think? I can't see it myself

[TheBoyMitchell]

If anybody accused me of pandering to affiliates, then I'd be more than proud of that, so take it as a compliment Jess. I've always said that looking after affiliates will always be my first, second and third priority (and affiliates know I'm always there for them whether it's 10pm on Friday night or 10am on a Sunday morning).

They/we get kicked in the teeth on a daily basis by networks, agencies and merchants who have scant regard for their/our concerns. From an affiliate angle, in just the last two days I'm sure I've written at least five emails to networks about broken deep-links, content units, merchants putting up CPM ads on their sites and so many other things. Not saying affiliates are perfect by any means and there are many many Affiliate/Account Managers who are absolutely fantastic, but Jess you maintain a fair balance between the interest of merchant and affiliate, whereas most are slightly more biased towards the former.

And on the other point, yes, affiliates do know more than many network staff. I am staggered on a daily basis at how little many younger network staff know about the industry and how they'd rather hang around on Facebook all day engaged in idle chit-chat and changing their profile picture every other day than spending time on A4U, WebmasterWorld and online marketing resource sites to learn about affiliate marketing and related fields.

I've sent white-papers on affiliate marketing to a few network staff who told me they wanted to learn more about our industry and, when I asked them three months later what they thought of them, not one had bothered reading them!

Two people have said to me in the last week: "you know everything about affiliate marketing" and I replied to both of them in the same way: "Nope, I know very little. It is a constantly evolving industry and each and every day I make it my mission to spend at least a hour or two increasing my knowledge by reading about what's happening in the industry and how to improve the way I work."

Jess, you know how to get my fired up!

Back to work...

Blimey Nadeem, that was pretty impassioned!

I must admit that I think you are right in many respects - however, I personally feel that the issues that you experience with regard to Networks, Merchants and Affiliates arent *always* bourne out of lazy Network staff, but a far more endemic and deep rooted problem - one that has come about by the Affiliate Marketing industry as a whole starting to grow out of control.

More and more people are switching to Affiliate marketing as an efficient channel to generate revenue. However in some companies that I have had dealings with before, the MD doesnt understand the way that the industry works, and so employs an Affiliate Channel manager. They in turn are new to the industry, and so recruit an Affiliate Management agency, who in turn appoint a series of Networks. the Network will have an account manager, and admin person and someone in their Finance department who look after the merchant.

Thats quite a lot of chains in the link, and so the possiblilty of something going wrong is always going to be exacerbated.

With the number of Network and Agency staff increasing at the current rate (or at least vacancies), it is inevitable that the quality of staff is diluted. I find this a shame. There are excellent Account Managers and Network staff out there, but the general standard of understanding and responsiveness is as a whole affected by the number of people who can effectively *hide* for a day, knowing that if something isnt done, it doesnt affect them personally. And that isnt unique to our industry - it happens in all walks of life.

This is something that traditionally Affiliates wouldnt have done, as any problem would directly affect them financially - however with the increase in the number of Affiliate Companies owning a vast number of sites and having more staff themselves, its now also something that will start to affecting Affiliates.

Which means that we are at a stage where Affiliate staff dont know what a Merchant or a Network need in order for them to work as effectively as they can, that Network staff dont know what Affiliates or Merchants need, and Merchants that dont know what Affiliates and Networks need. Not *all* staff obviously, but there are a growing number.

At the end of the day, an Affiliate Network is no more than a brokerage between Merchants and Affiliates - and should treat each with the same amount of respect. If thats to be interpreted as "pandering" then so be it - one persons pandering is anothers effective management. In an ideal world *all* Network staff should have knowledge of previous campaigns, should know all the relevant affiliates for their campaigns, should know how to deal with tracking issues, should be responsible for their actions and should be available 24 hours a day (just like the Internet is).

But they arent, and it wont ever happen while online marketing is in its current position. All the time merchants and affiliates alike continue to do things that they shouldn't (and this either through a lack of knowledge or a determined desire to make money whatever the cost), its impossible to get a level playing field, and as such impossible to effectively regulate the industry to a standard that would benefit everyone.

On both the Affiliate side and the Network side there is a very wide range of industry experience and also a wide range of what people believe to be ethical business practice. I dont see this changing unless regulation is bought into the industry - Network staff should have to have some bespoke Industry Standard qualification (similar to the exams stockbrokers have to take) before they are allowed to work on a clients account, and affiliates would have to disclose the details of their websites and PPC practices.

But it wont happen, because we are all a secretive little bunch who dont like anyone else knowing what we are doing in case someone takes our ball away or does what we are doing in a better way.

Until then, everyone will learn what they learn from colleagues, contacts and forums.

Obviously, these are just my opinions, and I do the best job that I can on a day to day basis. Sometimes its good enough for my clients and affiliates, and sometimes its not. Am I wrong? Possibly. but I am always willing to learn.


Neil Mitchell
Online Marketing Solutions UK | Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) Company UK | SEM Solutions | SEO Services UK
0845 634 2800
neil.mitchell@searchlogic.com
MSN: TheBoyMitchell@hotmail.co.uk

[Azam.net]

Am I wrong?

Yeh, that's complete rub... only kidding. Neil, your dissection of the situation is spot on and far more intelligently put together than mine.

One thing I keep reminding others is that this is a nascent industry and we'll look back in 10 and 20 years time and see these as the Wild West days. Things will get better. We're all learning and improving every day.

The one thing that seriously concerns me is the constant pressure on network and Affiliate Management fees and overrides will mean support for affiliates will deteriorate yet further, but that's a whole different discussion.

[Hero]

the constant pressure on network and Affiliate Management fees and overrides will mean support for affiliates will deteriorate yet further

nop.. what will deteriorate is the support offered to the merchant... you get what you pay for. Affiliates should and will remain unaffected. For the companies & individuals who view affiliates as the core of their business, that is.

If "pandering to affiliates" (I'm still struggling to understand the meaning of the phrase) means that affiliates are the primary focus, then bring it on. Obviously, within reason and with the merchant's interest in mind as well - you don't allow affiliates to step all over the merchant's lounge just because they want to do so.

[8601cam]

Dear Jess (et al), what can I say that hasn't already been said.....

.......yes, you do look like noddy in the car

Just check out the weight of opinion in favour, opposed to one email against. The beauty of it is you care so much that you actually question whether they have a point. It's this element that makes you who you are not what others think they know about you.

"Illegitimi non carborundum" [sic]

Whilst I'm here, from a network perspective I take slight umbrage to some of the points raised regarding network staff. Nadeem I know you may not have been talking about AW specifically but as we've seen from Mr Nick Robertsons comments generalising can be a problem. Today we're hosting one of our regular training seminars for new merchants and I took the opportunity to invite some well respected affiliates so they could meet the team and see exactly what we share with our merchants and the mutual respect we show our partners.

I extend this opportunity to you too. Let me know if you're interested and you can be our guest to get an inside track on what network staff are really like. I promise not to forward your comments prior to the meeting

Kind Regards

Mark

[Graham@Buyagift]

As an affiliate marketing manager, pandering to affiliates is not a bad thing. I see it as my job to try and ensure that affiliates have everything they need to get the most from our program. It is also my responsability to ensure that whilst affiliates may make suggestions on our site/program, I weigh up the pros and cons for the business as a whole.

I don't know Jess, sometimes you can't win - perhaps affiliate managers should go back to the days of treating affiliates as grubby bedroom types

In answer to your other point - some affiliates know more more about some areas than merchants and vice versa. An affiliate may be able to dedicate more time to one area, whereas the merchant may have to spread themselves thinner. For example we have one guy doing PPC in house - an affiliate with a team of people may well know more than he/she does.

What annoys me about these types of comments is the 'them' and 'us' view - I always try and drum into people that affiliate marketing is a partnership - not dictating to affiliates, but working together to get the most from paying customers.

Graham