Pandering to affiliates

[jess1]

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I received a lovely email, which I shall not post as it was pretty horrible. As a side note, I really do hate all this hiding behind pseudo names and anonymity, the reason being is that people can say what they like, which is fine, but then I wonder when I go to events if Im not buying them drinks or engaging in pleasant conversation with them. Ho Hum!

The gist of the post was that I pander to affiliates, it stopped me in my tracks and I have thought about it for a week or so. Did (Anonymous) a) have a point b) what would prompt this comment and do other people feel the same way (not just about me) but about the industry. So do we pander to affiliates?
Id like to explore this further.

It would have been great to get a definition of what was meant by pandering to affiliates, as (Anonymous) was in my session at a4uexpo, and possibly with reference to the question, do affiliates sometimes know more then some merchants in terms of PPC, Organic Search. My answer was in some cases they do. Let’s throw this out there, what do you think? Is there any validity in this? Or is this something I just plucked out of the air?

Analytics was mentioned, do some affiliates understand more about some merchants sectors then the merchants? Did I pluck this out of the air or is it based on fact?

Im wondering if its not a scary prospect for some merchants that their affiliates may know more then they do, Im wondering if the reasons why some merchants are so severe with their affiliate program is because they can not be seen to know less about their own business then affiliates. Rather then use affiliates as a resource, they would rather just growl and finger point when things don’t go the way they had hoped. So is this pandering to affiliates by recognising and acknowledging affiliate skills by contrast to that of some merchants who enter our space

[John Jupp]

Affiliates in some cases DO know more than merchants and educating a merchant is sometimes the hardest thing an affiliate manager has to do. The affiliate sector is important to promoting a merchant. Itis not the only sector, but if a merchant is going to get affiliates to promote them then yes they do have to pander to them....if pandering means providing a decent product feed, prompt payment, explanation for payment reversals, up to date advertising creative...and more than two hours notice of termination of a program or a short term promotional offer.

[kier]

Kind of unsure what the question of affiliates knowing more than merchants has to do with the pandering to affiliates issue. Can you explain what they said a bit more?

[Paul Wright]

Not being over familiar with the term 'Pandering' I decided to check it out...

pander: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Hmmm, let's see....sexual intrigues, pimp, lust, gratification, prostitution and so forth...

Flippin eck Jess, you know how to kick start a thread don't you!

Paul

[Azam.net]

If anybody accused me of pandering to affiliates, then I'd be more than proud of that, so take it as a compliment Jess. I've always said that looking after affiliates will always be my first, second and third priority (and affiliates know I'm always there for them whether it's 10pm on Friday night or 10am on a Sunday morning).

They/we get kicked in the teeth on a daily basis by networks, agencies and merchants who have scant regard for their/our concerns. From an affiliate angle, in just the last two days I'm sure I've written at least five emails to networks about broken deep-links, content units, merchants putting up CPM ads on their sites and so many other things. Not saying affiliates are perfect by any means and there are many many Affiliate/Account Managers who are absolutely fantastic, but Jess you maintain a fair balance between the interest of merchant and affiliate, whereas most are slightly more biased towards the former.

And on the other point, yes, affiliates do know more than many network staff. I am staggered on a daily basis at how little many younger network staff know about the industry and how they'd rather hang around on Facebook all day engaged in idle chit-chat and changing their profile picture every other day than spending time on A4U, WebmasterWorld and online marketing resource sites to learn about affiliate marketing and related fields.

I've sent white-papers on affiliate marketing to a few network staff who told me they wanted to learn more about our industry and, when I asked them three months later what they thought of them, not one had bothered reading them!

Two people have said to me in the last week: "you know everything about affiliate marketing" and I replied to both of them in the same way: "Nope, I know very little. It is a constantly evolving industry and each and every day I make it my mission to spend at least a hour or two increasing my knowledge by reading about what's happening in the industry and how to improve the way I work."

Jess, you know how to get my fired up!

Back to work...

[Azam.net]

Had to come back to say one more thing.

Last year I advertised to post free copies of Revenue magazine to anybody in the industry. I can't remember, but think I mailed out about 80 copies. Of the people who made the requests, practically everybody was an affiliate, with a couple of agency staff and Affiliate Managers. That demonstrated to me the passion for affiliates for this great industry of ours. It's surprising that requests were not made by any network staff except one (though I appreciate some networks may already subscribe to the magazine). Sadly, it seems that, while there are some network staff who live, die and breath affiliate marketing - the few superstars on each network - for some it is a 10-6 job rather than a real passion; if you're passionate about something you want to read and learn as much as possible.

To give an example, I'm so passionate about literature that to whichever country I go, I hunt around for any magazines about books, even if they're in a language I can barely understand. Then I sit with a dictionary trying to understand the articles

[KieronD]

If the email was from somebody who didn't even have the decency to say who he/she is then treat it with the respect it deserves. I.e. the delete button.

I can't be bothered with people who don't even have the courage of their convictions to put their name to their opinions.

[KieronD]

And another thing.....

Of course you don't pander to affiliates Jess. You're one of the most balanced well respected people in the business. The people that matter in this industry know that. So as I say, hit that delete button and don't waste another moment of your time worrying about this kind of rubbish.

[sgpratley]

Agree with Kieron completely, if they don't have the courage to put their name to the accusation, I'd assume it was pretty hollow.

Answering one of the questions, no I don't think affiliates know more about the merchant's business as a whole, but they do know more about the practicalities of driving online sales to a business.

The successful merchants are the ones who do what they do best and support the affiliates in providing their part of the equation. If a merchant can provide great products at great prices and great customer service but knows nothing about where to buy cheap, qualified traffic for their site, that's nothing to be ashamed of, as long as they recognise that and give those in the know the tools to do their job.

Even organisations as big as the NHS, BT, and the Army bring in outside partners to help them, so for a small organisation to admit they have gaps that other people can fill is no shame. Admitting you can't do everything yourself is a big step in building a scaleable business.

[Hero]

I love these threads, I expand my vocabulary, if nothing else... grubby, pander... anything else?

[drivetowin]

Absolutely Jess - I agree with Kieron and Stephen - if they don't have even the guts to put their name behind it then just ignore it - there are far too many on this forum and elsewhere who are all too willing to slag someone off behind the anonymity the forum provides but would not say boo to a goose face to face.

One of the reasons you, me, Paul and a few others have earned the respect we have in the industry is because we're prepared to call a spade a spade. I know for sure I have said things that have riled networks, merchants, affiliates (and even you once!!) on here but the one thing they all know (because I've done it) is that I will say the same thing to them in person as I will here on the forum. Equally though, I think we are all able to publically praise someone when they do something well and (hopefullly) have the good grace to admit publically when we got something wrong.... yes even the best of us make mistakes from time to time.

No, you most definitely do not pander to affiliates, you maintain a fair balance between merchant interests, network interests and affiliate interests - everyone has to accept that no matter what your role in life some days you get to be the seagull and some days you get to be the windscreen....

Do affiliates know more than merchants? sometimes yes - there are some ppc affiliates who most definitely know more than the majority of merchants and some of us who are good at seo who can most days beat merchants hands down (had to smile this week when for one product our site was at number 1, play.com at number 2, amazon at number 3 and woolworths at number 4 - must admit that did bring a smile to my face - and never forget of course that Google doesn't like affiliate websites especially if you don't hide your affiliate links - if I had a quid for every time I'd heard that one then truly 'this time this year Rodney, we'll be millionaires'

[Julie H]

Hi Jess,

So, lets get this straight - Mr / Mrs Anonymous sat in your seminar and listened to what you said, then not having the balls to say anything to you about it at the time, they go home and compose an email about it, still not having the balls to put their name to it! Words fail me - which is a first for me!

I was in your seminar and I thought (and said at the time) that it was very good and educational. I agree with everyone else, especially Kieron - hit the delete button.

Affiliates can educate merchants and even network staff on how the industry works, well it is named after us you'd think we'd know what we're doing ;-)

Jules
xx

[Qui Gon Jinn]

Jess,

Just to say, on the occasions we've chatted or reading you blog, you've always struck me as maintaining a well balanced approach & position between merchant & affiliate and can only echoe all the encourage sentiments above by affiliates who know.

[renegade]

Jess, in my experience you always have the best interests of the merchants and affiliates you're working with at heart.
Some of the time one party or the other doesn't believe that - or they don't like what you're saying - but stick to your guns and we'll all end up better off both literally and metaphorically.

[3wdl]

Just ignore people like this Jess - no point getting wound up by them if they don't bother saying who they are!