The arrogance of merchants

[dougs]

In my new role as diplomatic ambassador (not). It astonishes me and I wonder what I am missing, having ran and ownded numerous companies I would always talk nicely to people who could give me business. I would make their life easy and try every way to help them send me more business.

So today I am in my new play role and applied for the NEXT affiliate program on buy.at. Now buy.at know of me but we have never done much together, notably because affiliacy really is not our game. But they know our volumes over the years have been very very large. NEXT have no idea who we are or what we do.

I am then sent a form from buy.at with questions on....of which I dont even read....and decide not to bother even trying anything with NEXT. On principle I look at this that NEXT feel they are some monster and I should be holding my cap in my hand asking if I can give them some money. Sorry NEXT no interest and when your share price is falling through the floor,and a recession is coming don't you think you should be encouraging potential partners.

NEXT Share Price Chart | NXT.L | GB0032089863 | Yahoo! Finance UK

I just wonder am I missing something, every time I have a chat with MD's of major PLC's I say the same thing...

The world is moving online
Its moving to google
You have one site, you cant build more, your share holder wont go for that
Out of 21 slots on the front page of google in paid and organic best you can have is 2
I can have all 21 if the desire is there
I'd like to play with some sort of deal and we can work together
We always make sure that everyone can make money from the deal
Historically we never stopped a deal unless the terms have changed from the merchant
We like to do things for the long term
Are you interested?

Generally i sign most deals Iapproach, but it astonishs me that merchants don't realise who controls the traffic dictates the terms.

Corporate arrogance?

Any thoughts?


Doug

[Shane]

big brands seem unaffected by the real world Doug you should know that by now, their culture is if they say it's sunny then it's sunny even if rain drops are falling.

Next are the "higher than a troop of monkeys on crack" merchant of the moment, they appear to now be thinking that if they dissuade the unworthy (ie those that will actually look at a program and voice an opinion that it's not up to the standard requred and voice negative thoughts about it) that all will eventually be sunny and everyone will be happy like a cadbury's flake advert or something.

seems to me that the bigger the brand, the more they feel you have to justify why they should let you push their program, yet they offer steadily worsening terms if they can get away with it, take Next for example, they swap networks without honouring existing cookies, even as short as it is at a paltry 7 days and they offer absolutely insultingly dire commissions, 2% is a farce for their product range !!!!!! in fact they should be ashamed at the prices they charge and the commissions they pay, this isn't affiliate marketing it's exploitation marketing.

We should all make the choice NOT to push a merchant like this and inform them as to exactly why and what it would take for us to take a program seriously.

like you said Doug, merchants don't realise who controls the traffic dictates the terms. however part of this is the fact there aren't that many affiliates who persue better terms, many just take what is given without question or opinion or seeking to get the real value of their traffic

It's about time affiliates realised the commission river only flows out if the traffic river flows in.. the power is dictated by he/she who directs the traffic so if you have traffic start negotiating it's true value !

[dougs]

I know I live in a utopian world....my psychometric testing always say I am an idealist.

Luckily for us then Shane then we do value the traffic Ultimately though for many affiliates it will be their death.

We will negotiate more comission that the standard affiliate and hence we will make more money per visitor, hence we can spend more on ppc and development, meaning we get greater volume and hence greater overrides.

I saw this happen a couple of years agao in the gambling industry where a friend controlled so much of the market he could offer more to affiliates that the merchants did.

so what about buy.at are they just pandering to the merchants now?

Doug

[jezaff]

In my (limited ) experience bigger companies need to be very process diven simply to manage all the work that they have. This helps to protect you and to protect them. They prob need a form to ensure they capture the right data to go into the system.

My employer deals with the some of the country's biggest companies. None of them are above our processes. I suppose you could hire account managers to provide a more personal service but that needs to be weighed up against the ability to still make a profit! It will depend on your business model.

Just the other side of the story I guess , in an ideal world I agree and as a consumer, like many, I am often disatisfied with large company's service .

So anyway, unless their hoops are particularly unreasonable then I dont see the problem. I have no idea what the process was but you imply all they did was send you a form??!

I guess, like next, you are in a position to pick and chose who you do business with and can turn your nose up at their generic form. So arent you both as bad as each other ?! I guess it comes down to the Carnegie principle of people having to be made to feel "important" before they are responsive. Personally Id be happy that they acknowledged my existance - but then im a newbie to this lol, I cant afford to be arrogant yet !

[dougs]

Jezaff

You need to have that arrogance from the start, you can never change a deal after the start. It's your life and your time and hence I would advise you to choose carefully who you work with. If they treat you as a moron at the beginning from my experience they always will.

We started off as a one man band with a laptop, but I never doubted the value of the traffic I was sending. If I could send someone 1 sale then I could do 2, if I could do 2 I could do 20,000. I just had to spin the plates faster or get machines and more people to plate spin.

If you like them and trust them at the start and they appear to be trying to help and be honourable, then that is probably the philosophy that the directors have. Agreed it comes down to process's but behind each process is a plan......integrity, honesty, long term partnership or shaft the partner.

Since writing this post I have recieved numerous emails telling me that NEXT are not very honourable in their dealings. Now one email in my eyes is a dispute, 2 may be an accident, 10 probably means they are not very honourable.

So NEXT I will watch your share price fall more and more, as eventually KARMA does rule.
Or get off your lazy arses and go and lick some peoples feet who you shat on.......

Now a question for Buy.at and gents I know you well and like you but what the hell is going on. Has the money clouded the vision, if you associate with scum and let them dictate the terms, ultimately you become the SCUMS b1tch


Morning rant over

The arrogance of merchants | Doug's mouthpiece

Doug

[JonLloyd]

Not sure I understand this thread. As an affiliate you work as a sales agent for the merchant whoever it might be. Next have decided to ask for a form to be filled in before they will accept your application. Their commissions are based on their business data. Now you have a morning rant because you think they are making a mistake by not giving you more commission and letting you side step the application process!

Well I am going to have an afternoon rant.

I just sent an email to Amazon saying that I wanted to be their new UK Operations Director and they had the cheek to call me for an interview!! I mean I’ve been in the game for years and know my stuff. Surely they realise how good I am, what salary I deserve and what company car I want.

Rant over with tongue in cheek. Obviously my rant is not true but felt it was needed to illustrate a very strange idea that affiliates own merchants. It's about partnerships, just the same as employers and employees.

[dougs]

Agreed its all about partnerships........the questions including whcih blogs do you post on and what is your username. Doubt I will be approved no

When is the last time a merchant came to see you? Expedia who we did a huge huge number of sales with never once came to see us once in 3 years.....and by huge I do mean huge.

The arrogance of merchants | Doug's mouthpiece

Doug

[Frostie]

Originally Posted by JonLloyd Not sure I understand this thread.

I think you are oblivious to the ongonig Next saga for sure!

[Elaine]

Originally Posted by JonLloyd very strange idea that affiliates own merchants. It's about partnerships, just the same as employers and employees.

nooo affiliates don't own merchants - but they do 'own' that little bit of real estate on Google which the Merchant would like to be featured on

and noo it's not the same as employers and employees - I don't think Halifax would have been best please if I'd suddenly decided to start selling Woolwich Mortgages :eek:

[JonLloyd]

Originally Posted by Frostie I think you are oblivious to the ongonig Next saga for sure!

Not at all. Next have obviously upset a lot of people in the affiliate marketing community. Changing networks, dropping commissions, bad communication etc. That is what they have decided to do for their own reasons and they are not accountable to anyone other than shareholders. Are you saying that there share price is dropping due to their affiliate marketing strategy? I dont think so! What I dont understand is why there is so much hatred towards them. It's always going to be their descision. If you dont like their methods dont promote and move on to a company you do like working with.

[gunneradt]

Now Halifax - that is one arrogant merchant. I'll even be moving my mortgage from them over the way they feel they can control who does what. Ive stoppped promoting them and I hope evryone does.

Originally Posted by Elaine nooo affiliates don't own merchants - but they do 'own' that little bit of real estate on Google which the Merchant would like to be featured on and noo it's not the same as employers and employees - I don't think Halifax would have been best please if I'd suddenly decided to start selling Woolwich Mortgages :eek:

[dougs]

Are you saying that there share price is dropping due to their affiliate marketing strategy? I dont think so!

Of course......its not directly, but if that is how they deal with partners, they will be doing it to all of their partners.......its an intent to **** people

[Elaine]

What I dont understand is why there is so much hatred towards them. It's always going to be their descision. If you dont like their methods dont promote and move on to a company you do like working with.

read the blogs and the threads and you'll soon understand why - to put it simply most honest folk eventually stand up to bully boy tactics - especially when the bully is that stupidly arrogant they think they can get away with any type of mistreatment - it, absolutely beggars belief.

And as regards the shareholders, and the top dogs at Next - Do you really think they know what's going on down here? Do you really think they know that Next is turning down, possibly, MILLIONS of £££s worth of business and jeopardizing their future on the t'internet.

I don't think they do - YET

[Frostie]

Originally Posted by JonLloyd Are you saying that there share price is dropping due to their affiliate marketing strategy? I dont think so!

Erm yes! I presume you do know what effects share price right?
Profits!
Therefore if, like what has happened, overnight they have instantly lost £m's of sales because of affiliates dropping their programme then guess what... their profits take a hit which could directly have an effect on their share price!

Originally Posted by JonLloyd What I dont understand is why there is so much hatred towards them.

Its not hatred. You really have to understand that, otherwise you will never understand this thread!
It's complaints about how they run their programme and how it is being managed. Look at Dixons not so long ago! They messed people around, but through hard work from network and merchant they turned it around! Next are not doing so. Hatred is a strong word so be careful when you accuse people of hating others.

Originally Posted by JonLloyd If you dont like their methods dont promote and move on to a company you do like working with.

Thats a cracking piece of advice! Many thanks!

[Spreader]

Hello folks,

You've entitled the thread "The arrogance of merchants" Doug, but I reckon you've missed out the word "some". In my opinion it shoud read "the arrogance of some merchants"...

Personally I love our affiliates! They account for 35% of our sales and thus are a massive part of our business. Lots of them are my buddies and they are literally an integral part of our company structure and our decision making process.

Do you think it is arrogance or is it ignorance? I obviously don't know about the specifics of the Next saga, but it seems to me that quite a few big companies don't actually "get" affiliate marketing and the "power" that affiliates actually have.

I also agree with Frostie. If, overnight a load of affiliates drop your campaign, then it has got to effect your sales, profit and ultimately share price.

Ten ten. Over and out.

Zak.