Blushingbuyer Program Closing

[John Jupp]

Tweet

Isn't that brand bidder using AW links? So presumably not the original merchant.

Have to say that it's disappointing to hear about a merchant facing these problems and yet not surprising. Affiliates breaking clearly defined rules (which I'm assuming to be the case here) is bad news for all of us within the industry and remains a big problem.

OOh that wasn't there earlier. Naughty.

[steveaich]

Steve

While I can understand that you are frustrated, calling people names and accusing them of fraud and stealing commissions makes you look very unattractive to any potential affiliate - in my personal opinion you are making yourself look just as bad if not worse than the people you are attacking.

A spade is a spade, I'm not going to call it a non mechanical digging implement. There are so called affiliates stealing money from both merchants and genuine affiliates, once people admit this, they may address the problem. Kind of like an AA meeting, the first thing you have to do as admit you are an alcoholic

I'm not for one moment going to pretend that there are not affiliates who bend the rules (and indeed those who bend the rules to breaking point) and clearly it is for you to decide whether Awin give you value for money in dealing with those (which you clearly believe they haven't).

There is bending, and there is breaking, if nicked £20 out of your wallet, I would expect you would want to break me. an no I don't think Awin offer value for meony, which is why the decision was made to leave them.

I wish you luck with your independent programme but as Matt says I suspect you will struggle to find any reasonable volume of affiliates.

We don't want volume, we want quality, rather one genuine affiliate, than 100 scammers.

Just a couple of questions:

1. What commission rates do you pay on your independent programme - presumably if you are not paying override and high management fees then they are higher than through your Awin programme?

2. I'm not sure if the ppc ad showing on your brand term is yours but if it is I'm intrigued to know what an Embarssing Product is?

Commission rates will be competitive, what we save from not using a network will be spent on better offers for customers to increase coversion rates rather than increased commision, then we all make more money.

I'd love to know what an Embarssing Product is as well, although if the idiot could spell properly may not have noticed that he was brand bidding!

[mattg]

Great thread, I like a man who says what he means.

Steve if I was (ahem) big in condoms I'd be calling you now to get on your program.

[Derrenbrownpoker]

Great thread, I like a man who says what he means.

Steve if I was (ahem) big in condoms I'd be calling you now to get on your program.

Yea good stuff Steve. I think you are in very good company I believe the £30 million a year Asos founder Nick “grubby affiliates” Robertson said.

"I'm not saying we couldn't do more in the online marketing space. Next year we'll reintroduce affiliate marketing, but as it should be. No silly commissions being paid to grubby little people in grubby studios growing income at our expense, getting in the way of genuine sales."

I think MyVoutcherCodes and its keyword stuffing FORCED click cookie dropping is the main problem affiliate for most merchants.

[Barry]

In terms of someone still now doing PPC on your brand I think that AW should be still directing the PPC ad to your site - but without the commission.

I can see your grudge now that the top PPC ad when clicked just goes to a 'This link is currently inactive.' page - this must be losing you traffic.

Ta

Baz

[Claire Theobald]

Firstly I am extremely saddened to read the feedback from Blushingbuyer and we have spoken with Steve about actioning the closure of his programme.

However I find I do have to expand on several of the points raised as I feel that more clarification is required.

Affiliate Window do offer brand protection and monitoring software for merchants, but we need merchants to request if they want this feature to be activated on their programme and also provide the necessary keyword terms for policing. This requirement has never been discussed or brought to our attention by Blushingbuyer and unfortunately resulted in sales being driven through PPC on brand, the volume of these sales would, unmonitored, be significant.

Whilst merchants can request that affiliates refrain from brand bidding in their T&C’s this can sometimes be missed or ignored, hence using automated policing tools 24/7 for restricted terms. In addition, not all infringements are down to affiliates bidding on brand so the technology is used to identify activity so we can communicate with the affiliate and understand what has occurred. If an infringement has occurred all commissions can be declined and the affiliate removed, dependant on the policy of the merchant.

Regarding affiliate approval onto a merchants programme we offer two methods; a manual and an automated route. The Blushingbuyer programme was set-up to auto approve joining affiliates which reflects a more open policy on the types of affiliates that you are happy to work with. It is unfair to claim a network is lazy or incompetent when they have not been made aware of merchant’s specific affiliate requirements and given an opportunity to both advise on and address the matter in hand. Our records show only 25 technical queries from you since you started in 2004 and all resolved. All other queries have been dealt with, with no mention of brand or affiliate concerns.

For clarification you do not have a managed account service, you are subscribed to our account development service. This service was officially launched in February 2007 to offer a consultative approach, advising merchants on best practice and strategies to optimise their affiliate programmes. This service provides a valued resource to the majority of merchants on our network, who utilise the significant knowledge available in account development to better understand and optimise their affiliate campaigns.

The account development service does not offer a dedicated account manager for each account; therefore our executives cannot be viewed as a dedicated resource for merchants. If a dedicated resource is required we do advise merchants to consider recruiting an in-house affiliate manager or utilise the services of an affiliate management agency.

We do encourage merchants not to be reliant on a single point of contact within account development but offer access to the team via a group contact line and central email address. This enables us to maintain a flexible team structure where points of contact will change as individuals’ progress through the organisation. A team of executives are always on hand to assist with the day-to-day management of any programme but this is only part of the equation as we also depend on a merchants input - the communication of key needs or issues - in order for the relationship to be truly beneficial.

We do invest heavily in the protection of our merchants – including Snoopy brand tool and our proprietary spyware monitoring tool Agent 99, but merchants that have joined our network on a self management agreement have a responsibility to monitor their programme performance / affiliate behaviour and report any incidents to the network, so we can offer support and action accordingly.

I will acknowledge that your programme has suffered abuse and that naturally you feel aggrieved. My only regret is that you feel we have done nothing to support you when it has only just been brought to our attention.

Kind Regards

Claire

[steveaich]

Clare thanks for your comments.


including Snoopy brand tool and our proprietary spyware monitoring tool Agent 99, but merchants that have joined our network on a self management agreement have a responsibility to monitor their programme performance / affiliate behaviour and report any incidents to the network, so we can offer support and action accordingly.

I've never been made aware of these tools, and if you have them, why not default to having them turned on for all merchants, or do you charge extra for this service??

I'm not just having a go at Affiliate Window, there seems to be a reluctance accross the industry to stamp on unethical behaviour, perhaps AW could take the lead?

When I have tried talking to the account development team, I have found that they had no more knowledge of how to use affiliate marketing effectively than me, they had no knowledge of our program, and did not seem willing to spend any time looking at it to give me any worthwhile advice. This was when the scheme was first launched, so maybe things have improved now, I luckily am no longer in a postion to find out.

I would also suggest that you look up the word proactive, read, digest.

How many other merchant programs on Awin are not being run as effectively as they could be? How many other merchants are thinking, we're paying a lot of money for not much return? How much could you increase your bonus by if you could keep them happy? Or are you making enough on the override of brand bidders and voucher code cookie stuffers?

[csn]

Will an email be sent confirming the closure of this program?

Also, as a 'genuine' affiliate promoting your brand, I've never heard a peep from you. I noticed a few weeks ago that you are only a few miles away from me and you were on my 'hit list' of companies I would want to work closer with.

I can understand your grievances and I'm sure they are shared amongst some affiliates but if you don't talk to your affiliates, how do you expect support from them? I give more page space to merchants who contact me and know me by name than those who, like you, know me by number hence why you've never seen a sale from me and your competitors have.

Personally, all I look for in a merchant is a named contact who offers support and help to their affiliates. I recall never seeing this from BB.

[cycloneuk]

It is very important for merchants to keep in touch with affiliates, most launch an affiliate program and you never hear a word from them again. They expect it to run smoothly and bring in sales, that is not the case. I send a newsletter at least every month, with our latest news regarding promotions and new products, also at the bottom of every email is my direct email, where affiliates can contact me anytime.

[steveaich]

Will an email be sent confirming the closure of this program?

You'd hope so, but as Awin have yet to send me the account closing form, despite me now phoning them 3 times, I would'd place any money on it!

Also, as a 'genuine' affiliate promoting your brand, I've never heard a peep from you. I noticed a few weeks ago that you are only a few miles away from me and you were on my 'hit list' of companies I would want to work closer with.

We used to send out regular newsletters to afiliates, we had no responce to them (as in none, even when we begged for a responce.) It was impossible to tell if anyone was reading them, and as they seemed to be making no difference to our sales rates and we got busy doing other things they stopped. They shouldn't have, but they did. My contact details are below, if you are interested in promoting us let me know, drop me a line, i'd love to have a chat.

[dougs]

Well said Steve

A spade is a spade.

Doug

[Mogga]

The last emails I have from Blushingbuyer:

8 Apr, 31 Mar, then two last year
I assume you mean you've sent more - but I've not got them. Which is a shame of course. I think the situation with voucher codes is going to continue to rear it's very ugly head for some time though.

Sorry to see you leave AW though

[Claire Theobald]

Steve,

Firstly, thank you for your comments. As this debate is being conducted in a public forum I am keen to answer your questions as concisely as possible, whilst also dispelling a few inaccuracies about our service levels and ongoing support for merchants.

Affiliate Window was one of the first networks to introduce brand protection and adware monitoring systems and continues to offer these free of charge to merchants that request these services. We do not offer them as standard on programmes because not all merchants have the same terms and conditions or policies in place and it would be inappropriate for us to place restrictions on programmes that are not in accordance with a merchant’s wishes.

For both Snoopy and Agent99 to work effectively it is important that the merchant is fully aware of what these tools do, how they work and what they can expect from them. Affiliate Window built these tools with the sole aim of protecting the incremental value of our affiliate programmes. If you had approached us with your concerns about brand bidding on your programme it would have been the first thing we recommended. However, to my knowledge, the first approach to us regarding the issue of brand bidding was made only recently. While we do our best as a network to protect the interests of our merchants, we expect that our merchants share that responsibility by reporting any issues to us so we can take the appropriate action.

I agree with you entirely that the affiliate industry needs to be effectively policed to protect the merchants, without whom the industry would not be able to survive. However, I disagree that the network is in some way incentivised to allow affiliates to ride roughshod over your brand. We would not have an industry, and more importantly Affiliate Window would not work with some of the UK’s top brands, if this was really the case. Sadly, as you will be moving away from Affiliate Window, and affiliate networks in general, we will never get the chance to prove this to you.

Affiliate Window have taken the lead in several areas of industry policing, and I am sure many active members of this forum will agree that Affiliate Window remains one of the most ethically orientated networks in the UK. Our approach to the Quidco issue serves as a recent reminder that we are not afraid to lose major affiliates in order to protect the interests of our merchants. However, we cannot make a stand alone. We will continue to deliver industry leading technology and reporting that allows both our merchants and affiliates as much transparency and protection as possible for their affiliate programs.

I think I have explained in detail the service levels we offer in Account Development, and I am only left to say that I apologise if you feel we have not done enough to ensure growth on your programme. Your criticisms about proactivity have been taken on board, however given the amount of contact you have had with this network and your affiliates since 2002 perhaps this criticism should be shared rather than leveled directly at us.

An affiliate programme only works if the network and merchant concerned cooperate to reach a common goal. Affiliate Window places a lot of faith in its service level, and so do more than 700 merchants, from large high street brands to niche retailers. There is no value for this network in mismanaging any affiliate campaign. It is also impossible for us to provide a 24/7 service to every merchant that we work with. That is why we stress the importance of merchant involvement from the outset of any affiliate campaign. It is crucial that a merchant works with us and takes responsibility for their campaign. Unfortunately, the first we heard of your dissatisfaction or intentions within the affiliate space was just prior to your forum post. There are many Affiliate Window staff that regularly post in the forum, all of whom have full contact details at the base of their posts. We encourage merchants to get in touch with any feedback or concerns they have and I apologise if this open communication policy was something you were unaware of.

We apologise to Blushing Buyer and to their affiliates for any perceived delay in announcing the closure of the campaign. We have precise procedures to follow in the event of a closure to ensure the protection of both our merchants and affiliates. A member of the team emailed you on Friday requesting written closure notice and we have not yet had a response. However we have not delayed and have sent out a formal closure communication to your affiliates today.

Finally, I would like to say that we are truly sorry your long relationship with Affiliate Window has ended on a sour note, but I wish you all the best with your continued work in the affiliate industry.

Kind regards

Claire

[steveaich]

Claire, thanks again for your comments, and your help in ensuring that the program is closed in a professional manner.

It seems that your colleages had emailed me, however I hadn't recieved the emails. Where they went to????

All affiliates should have recieved notification that the program is closing. If any affiliates are interested in working with us directly,please get in touch.

I will be trying to contact affiliates directly, however it can be hard to get your contact details, as they are not passed on to the merchant, and I have a feeling affiliate window may not be too happy if I used their mailing system to contact affiliates to get them onto our inhouse scheme

[Elaine]

Steve you've had a quite a rant about Affiliate Window allowing dodgy affiliate practices and allowing affiliates to steal from you! Personally, I think you've been a tad unfair on them, if you had contacted them first and they had still been unhelpful then I would have more sympathy with your rant (and I do know about ranting!)

What I don't get is why you, and other disheartened merchants don't name the dodgy affiliates - I, for one, would be grateful to know which ones I need to keep an eye on!

Naming and shaming the worst offenders just might bring the rest inline, which would make it easier for all of us - and might make the Networks sit up and take notice - just a thought