Thread: BIG trouble at t'mill (this time it's Harry Potter) ?

Steve,

So lets get this right, you have a domain name that doesnt look as though it imposes on a trademark.

You optimise a site to sell books via a legitmate retailer (i.e. Amazon) and you get a legal team telling you your passing off.

Obvoulsy Im no lawyer and am not in a position to give anyone legal advice but passing off is defined as:

"the law protects a company's trading name and style by preventing other companies 'passing off' themselves or their goods or services as those of another."

Maybe WB legal team have got a little over zealous here!

I'd suggest you explain to them exactly what your relationship is with Amazon etc. Perhaps you need to be acknoledging WB's trademark on your page somewhere?

If they are still uncooperative I'd suggest have a chat with Alex Chapman at Briffa. They specialise in this kind of thing and I'm sure would be able to help you with this.

www.briffa.com

Good luck and do let us know what happens!

Very interesting Steve. At first glance I would say that WB are being over-zealous but I'm no lawyer.

A really good forum where you could ask for advice is over at the domain name forums.

www.dnforum.com/

They have an excellent forum on legal issues surrounding domain names etc. and loads of top-class layers post and offer advice there. Might be worth making a post.

Kieron

Hi smnash

Don't know where you stand legally but I've just bought a copy of HPB5 from your site so the commission can go towards legal fees. (don't use amazon affiliate prog myself)

The problem is that even if they are being heavy handed and you are in the right it could still be expensive and stressful to fight it.

A lot of people will look at the legal, threatening documents and just give in, even though they could win it if taken to court. BUT, if you did take it to court and won you'd not get compensated for the stress and time so it could be a pyrrhic victory.

On the one hand I'd think it'd be right to fight it and win, as if you're not doing anything wrong then they shouldn't be able to get away with it.

But in reality I'd not think it worth the risk and the time taken fighting it would be better spent creating/improving other sites.

You could try contacting them first, though, and try to see if there's a middle ground. E.g. is there something specific they object to that you could change?

Or if you do hand over the domain say that you don't believe their case is valid but if they pay your (reasonable) costs then you'll hand it over to them. I.e. not a ransom, just the cost of the domain, web space and any fees incurred handing it over.

It does sound like they're being really heavy handed, though. I can understand it if you had "Harry Potter" in the domain, but just having "Harry" there shouldn't be a problem.

Ok, Steve, found your site.

I got the same letter from "Theodore Goddard, Solicitors for Warner Brothers. I did as they asked but though I have contacted them several times, I have had no more correspondance with them.

I did have/had "http://www.harrypotter-shop.co.uk", which currently repoints to Warner Brothers site.

It pi??es me off when companies are blind to the fact that as affiliates we provide them with marketing/advertising of their products in order to help them sell those products (with a miniscule percentage commission for ourselves).

So I'd have thought doing something like this would benefit Warner Brothers rather than hinder them. Anyway enough of my ranting/raving.

Anyway, I would right back to the solicitors stating your case.

According to the Warner Brothers website copyright notice, the own "HARRY POTTER" not "HARRY" which I think they would have trouble registering as a trademark.

"HARRY POTTER, characters, names and related indicia and WARNER BROS., shield logo and related indicia are trademarks of Warner Bros. TM & © 2003.
Harry Potter Publishing Rights © J.K.R"

However, I notice you have used HARRY POTTER in your keywords, which may be scrutinised as infringement of copyright? Best thing to do is seek legal advice.

Take a look at

<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/17706.html" target="_new">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/17706.html</a>

you may stand a chance!?

TNCS

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If your ok to publish it, what is the URL of your site?[/quote]

As he said in his first post do a search for "harry potter 5" in Google and you'll find it at the top.

Cheers
Wardy

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>** transfer domain name to WB[/quote]

Assuming I've got the name of your site correct then I don't see what reason they have for demanding this - your domain name is not a trademark of WB and as you say you could easily use the name for something totally unrelated. Unless you have managed to guess the name of HP6!

I'd contact them and ask them what grounds they have for demanding the transfer of the domain name to WB.

Also might be worth explaining how affiliate system works and asking if you added an acknowledgement of WB's trademark, whether they would allow you to continue to advertise.

I had something similar with a product that I was promoting, where I got correspondence from the Legal Dept of the manufacturer asking why I was selling their products as I wasn't an authorised distributer. I wrote back to them explaining how affiliate marketing worked (and the benefit of me promoting their product) and offering to put an explanation of my relationship on the page. They were perfectly happy with that.

Ian


Not a legal expert, just my 2p worth

Is that font copyright?
And I'd just leave the bookcovers(from amazon?) if it were mine. (unless the flying harry is an amazon graphic)

If I were you I'd lose some of the tradedmark stuff. You can probably use it when referring to the book titles, but the rest of the time, refer to him as "our favourite wizard" and stuff like that. And maybe add a review of the books (in your own words) - in other words, remove the most contentious bits and provide some genuine original content so they can't accuse you of jumping on the bandwagon. Dunno if it'd work, but you never know...

Worth a shot,

<a href="http://harrypotter.warnerbros.co.uk/webring/webmasterprog.html" target="_new">http://harrypotter.warnerbros.co.uk/...asterprog.html</a>

Ask Warner Brothers themselves.

Personally if i was in your shoes, i would be in contact with my own solicitor a.s.a.p. If your solicitor tells you that you have no case, then try the alternative letters. Eg "i have contacted my solicitor in which he has clearly stated you cant blah blah blah." I am also going to contact all forms of media blah blah blah" The bad publicity works well. You might find your solicitor will send a similar letter, if not try it yourself.

All the best

What l would do is point the url to your Amazon affiliate url they are just pissed off that you are above amazon.co.uk when you do a search for "harry potter 5", l find your site top stuff nice design and l like the way you offer the books for difference countries dont now what they *****ing about.

tncs read what it says at the bottom of the page "No commercial web site operators are authorized to join the HPWC, nor may any of the contents made available to the HPWC be posted on any commercial web site"

Geees, this is rediculous!!! I know it can be worrying but stand firm as there is NO WAY you have to transfer that domain name to them. Its is NOT a trademark and they have zero claim on it.

As far as the site content goes, there is no suggestion that you are passing off as the official Harry Potter site. Quite clearly states that you are selling books and games in association with Amazon. The only thing I may suggest is that you put a link to the Official HP site so that it provides a way for those looking for the official site and maybe remove any official WB graphics as Zaq has pointed out. I am sure Amazon won't mind you using their graphics!

The fact that you are number 1 on Google is incidental as that is a public search forum. Harry Potter is a trademark, but you are not trading as 'Harry Potter', you are simply using the generic name to accurately describe the books you sell just like Amazon in number 2 position!

Bullying bastards, that's all they are so have none of it!