Voucher Code discussion - continued

[hpops]

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Not just another thread on voucher codes but a continuation on some of the themes discussed here...

http://www.affiliates4u.com/forums/a...ctories-3.html

To get wider industry input it felt appropriate to move out of the Awin forum - obviously any queries directly relating to the original thread should be placed there.

Continue!........

[confuscius]

Reposted as the thread was moved while I was posting!! Please delete other post, if appropriate.

Surely if you accept the argument that content sites are suffering as a result of VC sites overriding last cookie, what is the difference?

There seems to be two separate issues here.

There is no difference in my view in relation to content sites but there is a difference for the 'voucher sites with content' AND the 'content sites with vouchers' as one side gets paid and the other does not, yet the individual pages that a visitor saw could, in fact, be virtually identical.

Bottom line is that cookies that are set from the thousands of 'expired' voucher code pages that exist are now worthless to the VC sites using those methods in the case of Comet - it will be interesting to see if other Merchants follow suit and grab back some of the commissions they shell out. Clearly other Merchants will be happy to receive the sales that VC sites can generate regardless of whether they have codes or not.

Let's face it the majority of the large VC sites rank so well because of their ability to spin millions of keyword mixing pages into Google and whether a merchant has a code or not is irrelevant to them as they are there MAINLY to set cookies.

Hats off to Comet for finding the new Merchant 'clickbait commission clawback cookie' - now let's see how other Merchants react to this.

[Hero]

the voucher sites, apart from listing vouchers, they also list sales, offers, promotions, clearance section - are these listings not desired by the merchants who chose to disassociate themselves from those affiliates, even when they are in a sale period?

[Lawcom]

Well this is just confusing ?

The discussion is here http://www.affiliates4u.com/forums/a...ctories-3.html

[Leeky]

From what I can make out voucher codes nor the voucher code directories are the problem at all, the problem is the top performing, cookie stuffing, expired code hording, keyword stuffing, rule bending, cluttered, confusing voucher code directories which are the problem.

They are designed to stuff cookies irrelevant if a valid voucher code is available or not so stealing sales which shouldn't have been attributed to them in the first place.

Such as Comet should penalize those sites with the 'if no code is used rule' and leave the majority of voucher code sites alone to do what they are supposed to do, and that is to offer and promote ONLY valid voucher codes, special offers, promotions, and clearance products.

Why should the rule following voucher code sites be penalized as they are already penalized enough by trying to stay within the rules when others don't.

Voucher code sites do not steal commission, it's the rule breaking sites which do that... and those which horde expired codes which is amazingly within the rules???.

Lee

[Lawcom]

So whats your argument, doesnt that affiliate deserve to be rewarded for making it happen?

And in what way do VC sites 'make it happen ' ? even given your scenario all they are giving customers is a thumbs up and a pat on the back.. Do you really believe a customer wanting to buy goes directly to a VC site to see what codes there are and says ok I'll buy that then !!

What value do they offer to the businesses ...

Let's take comet.. customer is looking for a new TV.. the first thing people do is search for information on what would be the best product to fill their needs..

They go to the sites that give more indepth tech spec, that provide reviews, previous customer feedback, the content rich sites that google that everyone here acknowledges is what makes good web..

In doing so they promote and market direct products, they develop the brand of companies, they engage the customer in to making a decision, they work with the merchants to enhance and develop their business, they expand market reach and direct in customers and traffic to the merchants reach, they develop new business, there is a synergy of building customer base and promoting the business and products of their merchants etc .. there is a far greater added value to merchants over and above making the sale.

So the customer has made their choice, they know what they want, they are on their way to a cash desk and up pops VC .. here take this voucher it gives you 5% off just tell them Eric sent you and it's yours.. what value did the VC site bring ?

So the network has in some way taken the so called 'comet experiment' and said look at the analytics, see the drop, VC sites must work.. lol..

But what if the group of comet, dixons, currys etc all said we are not giving vouchers to the ticket tout waiting by the cash desk but only to the sales people who are actively promoting our business and our products, then I'm sure you'd see a difference..

If the sales people on the floor, actually selling the products, then can say here also is a voucher discount, come back to me again if you were happy with my service, that all makes sense, it builds the relationship with customer, affiliate, merchant..

By allowing VC sites to steal those customers, the merchants are effectively strangling the very sites that are the sales people to their business, they are cutting off the initial supply which as the content sites give up their product promotion as pointless as there customers are being diverted, will in fact damage the merchants business, there will be no one out there selling or promoting or building, just VC sites waiting to pounce.

[tijan]

So the customer has made their choice, they know what they want, they are on their way to a cash desk and up pops VC .. here take this voucher it gives you 5% off just tell them Eric sent you and it's yours.. what value did the VC site bring ?

Thats what you call an added value, and mind you the voucher code site does not pop up, be realistic in your discussion, how does the customer gets to the voucher code site in this scenario, he googles for TV voucher code for Comet and found one that was of good value, if the voucher code does not work, he google again until he finds a good one.

Now to complete your customer journey, lets assume COMET said no affiliate should promote voucher codes, the customer gets to the desk and wanted to use a voucher code he googles and couldnt find a voucher code but instead he saw a money saving voucher code from PC world for the same TV. What would you do if you were the customer, would you waste your money where there is no discount?

The voucher code site has encouraged the customer to go ahead and buy from Comet and deserve compesation for bringing sale that could have been lost to PC world. and if i should ask you, what stops the Site with indepth information from providing the necessary voucher code to their customers.

Fix your leaking website and stop loosing the commission you deserve to voucher code.

Comet has provided you with enough promotional materials including voucher code, so what stop your brand builder site from using them

But what if the group of comet, dixons, currys etc all said we are not giving vouchers to the ticket tout waiting by the cash desk but only to the sales people who are actively promoting our business and our products, then I'm sure you'd see a difference..

Thats where you go wrong again because it aint gonna happen. The sky is too wide, too wide for all birds to fly. If that happens, then other electrical stores will take advantage of it and send out new voucher code every minute, because the big brands have left a vaccum.
as a customer would you care for brand store when you can get the same TV at a local site offering more discount.

Choose to run your business the way you want, at the end of the day, if a voucher code directory is the best way to go then good luck to you. There is division of labour in every field of work. You can choose to do a skeletal work and earn the same income as those running helter skelter.
You can choose to produce crown for Coca cola bottle, let someone else produce the bottle while coke attend to the content. If you can convince Coca cola to buy both crown and bottles from you to increase your earnings, whats stopping you. Get to work and stop the rat-a-tat

If you think voucher codes site or directory are stealing your sales then add a voucher code to your site and give your customers every reason not to look elsewhere.

Tijan

[hpops]

Tijan, I'm sure some of that made sense, but "the sky is too wide, too wide for all birds to fly"?????

What?

[Lawcom]

I don't sell comet or am I affiliated, I think it is a wider scope than that ..

I don't see any mention of doing away with voucher codes so don't make stuff up to make a point that doesn't exist.. a very dumb assumption..

The question is when does a customer google TV voucher code.. if you are trying to say that is the first thing they do then you are deluded.. voucher codes are sought 9/10 after a decision to buy has been made..

I believe what you think "aint gonna happen" is just a matter of time, before merchants realise there is little benefit and do pull out... I do realise at present merchants are scrambling over there because other merchants are doing it, but in time when these companies get back to their business growth and not sell at any cost, they will make the saving of throwing money at VC sites commissions and invest it else where.

Either by offering specific codes to content promoting sites or offering global deals on products, voucher codes from a merchants point of view is about driving traffic and customers from other sites to take up their bargain, when they and perhaps you wake up and realise that VC sites do not generate traffic only suck it from somewhere else and divert it, then changes will be made..

Did you learn your comment style from Eric Cantona lol

[Hero]

The question is when does a customer google TV voucher code.. if you are trying to say that is the first thing they do then you are deluded.. voucher codes are sought 9/10 after a decision to buy has been made..

both you and tijan are making assumptions based on your own sense and potentially your shopping habits.
There are customers who are in the checkout process and then go looking for a last minute voucher.
There are customers who make browsing decisions based on what vouchers they find available, with a VC site their first point of research.
There are customers who are swayed away by finding a discount from another shop instead.
There are customers who will even cancel their orders if they find the product somewhere else cheaper.

All the above happen, for all merchants. To what extent and what impact it has for each individual merchant, that's the big question. To say "ban VCs for all programs" is wrong, to say "VCs are good for all programs" is equally wrong - there are merchants who can benefit and others that will not. It's their prerogative to select who they partner with, at the end of the day. Provided they have done an analysis of those sites, the customers they get through them and their value, and they are well informed when they make their decisions.

I also appreciate where merchants come from when they see loads of sales coming through from VC sites where no code was used. Their natural tendency is to say "well, if no code was used, they have played no part in the sale, so I'm not paying them commission". I would argue that this is more a case by case basis for each of those sites, rather than have a blanket approach. The majority of those sites, as I mention in my earlier post, list offers available on the merchant site as well. So they might not have used a voucher, but they have played part on a different level, potentially. There are also merchants who offer vouchers if you sign up to their newsletter - if the customer signs up after clicking from the VC site and places a full priced order, why wouldn't the VC earn commission?

This is an issue that has no right and wrong answers for the industry as a whole. It has right and wrong answers for the specific programs only, in my opinion.
Same way that brand bidding is very beneficial for some merchants and very detrimental for others, to give a tangible example.

[Lawcom]

A balanced perspective and you're right there are different shopping habits, although I can't think of one case or situation where someone would not be looking for anything go to a VC site, see a discount and therfore buy something they didn't want in the first place, simply because they saw a discount voucher ? even by the VC site owners own admission, voucher codes push people 'over the edge' to commit.

And to some extent I think I could look at my own spending habits, I want a product, I research it, I find the best deal, I process it and when I get to the "do you have a code" box, open a new tab and have a quick search.. we've all done that !!

Essentially, where does the VC site traffic come from ! they do not generate interest in a product, they do not sell products, they for the most part cream customers from content sites that have sold the idea of the right purchase.

So far I've not heard anything that would make me reconsider that observation or position..

I think it's damaging to the merchants business and the networks and explained why I thought that, why it is counter-productive and strangling sites that promote merchants business, and explained why ..

Not heard any arguments against that,apart from tijan saying mind your own business..

To me that translates to shut up and let us screw the merchants why the going is good..

[Hero]

Not heard any arguments against that

the huge increase in searches for voucher related terms is the greatest argument. The industry is dictated by the consumer interest and consumers are massively interested in discounts at the moment.
This cannot be disregarded.

[tijan]

Tijan, I'm sure some of that made sense, but "the sky is too wide, too wide for all birds to fly"?????

What?

If a merchant or group of merchants refuse to provide promo for a specific product in demand hundreads of merchants in the same category will jump at the opportunity to fill the gap. Nothing spoil.

[Lawcom]

Hero.. you're not getting it ? or most likely are attempting to defend your position as a someone who sells the idea of voucher codes to merchants..

yes people are looking for voucher codes, yes people want them, yes they help to seal the deal, and yes they are fundementally destorying the very content sites that generate traffic for them .. that business model at some point will implode..

[Hero]

[QUOTE=Lawcom;493555]Hero.. you're not getting it ? or most likely are attempting to defend your position as a someone who sells the idea of voucher codes to merchants..[QUOTE]

you commented on my post as a balanced approach - do I sound like a person who gives advice to merchants based on personal gain?

my position is that the customer trend is one that cannot be ignored. Provided this practice is a)within the merchant's business & marketing plan and b)done in a controlled and beneficial way for the merchant, affiliates and customers, then the merchant should do it.

Do voucher code listings destroy content sites? That is another debate altogether - but on the debate of whether code sites are of value (which is the one we're having, the answer is "it depends on the merchant and how they manage them"