Lack of Participation in the Forum From Networks

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 08-11-06

It's been an ongoing observation, but the participation on the forum from some networks historically has been poor, some are very good mind you ... each party know which category they fall into.

Some prefer to veil, hide & disguise problems doing the typical ostrich impersonation or us only hearing the sound of tumbleweed when requested to address issues, claiming that the forum isn't the support channel (though their support channel fails or is inadequate) or it's a company / plc policy not to get involved or post on contentious issues or discussions on any scale.

Yet they've all benefited & reaped the rewards from the forums existence giving opportunity to announce new programs & improve their persona of caring whether genuine or not. Yet most if not all of them read the forum from genuine interest in the community to complete paranoia.

I am not sure how much the forum has been promoted to merchants, but we often come across merchants who don't know of the forum. Perhaps we could collate a database of their contact details to ask them to engage or at least read the forum .. obviously their participation is at their perogative.

Has anyone ever seen an email from a network promoting to their affiliates to read or engage with the forum? I wonder that if all the networks were asked, how many of them would willingly send an email out to their affiliate base promoting the forum or even their merchants for that matter.

Some networks are great, it's evident who they are.

**Ste** · 08-11-06

It’s more likely that they don’t want to be seen promoting the forum when they have no control over the posts which are entailed. If they could moderate their own forum, then yes they probably would post more, as more and more of the posts on here are pitted against the Networks, Merchants rather than prosing them, but that’s what a forum is all about, taking the good with the bad.

Also this forum has a habit of being down for quite a lot of the time and some days inaccessible, but that’s an old story and not knocking the forum at all. But overall, I can’t think of any reason a Merchant would want to promote the forum, if the Merchant is not actively involved in the forum anyway.

**bapages** · 08-11-06

I have noticed that it has dropped considerably too.

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 08-11-06

Ste,

You are absolutely correct re "control" with regard to maybe just a few of the networks .. that's part of the paranoia, when some of the comments are too close to home & prefer to keep things under wrap.

But on the postive side look at those networks who are really open & honest & engage in dialogue, those are the ones who deserve the business.

**Catherine** · 08-11-06

Personally I find the a4uforum vital - not only for catching up on news and exchanging views, but it has also been great for referring affiliates and merchants alike. That being said, as we don't (yet!) have a dedicated section for our network representation, the relationship building side of what we do as well as the problem-solving do tend to be done off-forum. I would like to think that even when we do have our own forum section that affiliates would continue to contact us directly as (a) that's possible and (b) we always endeavour to give a prompt and personal response, so hopefully we won't get too many complaints!

To my knowledge I don't think we have sent out an email to our affiliate base promoting the a4uforum as a tool per se, however we make a point of posting news items on our affiliate system / in our newsletters letting affiliates know we're attending a4u events and this will include a URL. In addition, our merchants are made aware of the a4u forum and individual threads concerning their programs are highlighted to them, however it is up to their discretion as to whether they wish to respond personally.

**3wdl** · 08-11-06

Someone from buy.at introduced me to the A4U - I am forever in his debt & should have really found out about it sooner seeing as i'd been a webmaster and online marketer for a fair bit of time!

**drivetowin** · 08-11-06

I always push a4u at every chance I get - particularly at my training seminars where I encourage all merchants present to sign up (incidentally I also encourage them to sign up to the affiliate networks as affiliates to a) see what affiliates see about them via the network interface and b) see what their competitors are offering)

Having work for many years within the sales and marketing department of a large plc though I can sympathise with how difficult it is for employees of those companies to participate in forums like this one - I remember when one of our competitors was planting rumours about a fallability of one of our products on public forums but we were told strictly by our board we could do nothing to counter them - it's as much about stock market regulation as it is about company rules - a seemingly innocent off the cuff comment can be construed as a positive or negative indicator of the company's situation.

With regard to networks pushing a4u, the only one I am aware of that does so on a regular basis is Webgains.

**pistol101** · 08-11-06

The honest answer is that the forum is no longer as productive as it used to be. The market has evolved with more content sites taking a much bigger chunk of transactions and the forum has always struggled to keep these affiliates using the forum.

Gone are the days where everyone would help each other out, it's a common comment that it's now very unfriendly. Many merchants don't actually want to post now.

**OLBG** · 08-11-06

Anyone remember the Affiliate Window forum - was an early days rival the the old A4u site - I remember Jess & Wouter from there - think thats how I found out about A4u

**Jeffco** · 08-11-06

If you stick your hand through the bars of the lions cage it will eventually get bitten off. That happens a lot in here with networks and merchants, some people get absolutely slated and the occasional comment from affiliates can be really unprofessional, if some of those things were said outside in business the repercussions could be much greater. I think a lot of affiliates just stumbled into this business and then stumble through it on a day to day basis having no real business skill and little discipline when it comes to slagging off networks, merchants and individuals.

many networks tend to use this now just for promotion, rarely getting involved in the hurly burly of the daily debate and stearing clear of the controversy, and why shouldnt they? they are running a business and shouldn't really have time to be hanging about in chat rooms.

Some networks post programme changes here before emails are sent out to the masses, is that a good thing, i'm not sure that it is. I think it creates confusion and leaves you not really knowing where the port of call is for new information, some networks get it right and use this forum in an ideal way... others get it very wrong.

**Azam.net** · 08-11-06

The above observations are spot on. The forum is sadly not the place it was because of lack of affiliate network participation.

To be honest, if I was as incompetent as most of the affiliate networks in the UK, I wouldn't stick my head above the pulpit. If I was to leave this industry, the primary reason would be because of the sheer incompetency of the networks. It is still the case that barely a day goes by when I don't discover a link not tracking, a broken content unit, an out-of-date banner, a higher tier commission not applied, or an affiliate program closing down with zero notice. It's one thing for these things to have been happening in 2001, it's another thing for networks with 30 staff members to be engaged in such incompetency in 2006. (Still, the forums help sort the wheat from the chaff. There's a reason why affiliates compliment the likes of AF and IBG's share price has done so well.)

I think A4U is a wonderful resource and affiliates should utilise it to communicate with and learn from affiliates. Yes, criticism hurts, but it also helps one discover what can be improved and ultimately build a more successful business.

In terms of the affiliate networks not promoting A4U, talking with my PrimeQ hat, each and every single weekly newsletter has a prominent link to Affiliates4U. I agree that the networks should market this resource.

**loquax** · 09-11-06

Some interesting points... I'm always intrigued when a forum is deemed "unfriendly", mainly because on occasion my own site's is branded with that (usually by posters on other forums) yet day in day out there's help and friendship going on in much greater abundance than negativity, and tbh I think the same applies here.

Perhaps it's not as obvious as the early days - but scratch below the surface and there's some brightness and plenty of people trying to help out and move things forward. There may not be the same closeness and camradery amongst everyone, but there are pockets of friends/business relationships etc which have originated because of this forum.

For me, discussion in general is down, perhaps because the format of the forum (from the front page (sorry Matt)) has become more of an outlet for new program announcements, often scattered across numerous sections, that can mean topical debate is lost amongst everything else when a new offer is posted for every network (great stuff about posting, perhaps a restructure would help though?).

Also the vertical sectors (which imo are a good thing) have taken away some of the dependence or revolution of the forum on the networks - i.e. perhaps it's gone from being an affiliate network discussion forum to being an affiliate marketing discussion forum?

Networks do have, and have had, a tough/rough time on here and perhaps as Pete says there's not that much in it for them these days. That's a shame, but also perhaps that means the word "affiliate" is now much more a big business game vs the olden days when we all worked from home and "played" at being business like (oh i still do btw - oops).

That said, perhaps it's time all the affiliates got more involved - maybe the big content sites won;t want to be involved, so perhaps it's just down to the old timers to spark the general discussion. Whether that can be done without fear of interference from networks threatening posters or the site owner if they don't like something that's being said, I don't know... but the majority of people here do try (yes I do honest guv) to conduct themselves with decorum (i loathe to use the word professionalism so won't).

The forum perhaps does have an air of "there's something wrong with merchant/network...." but to be fair, some of the issues that are around have been, as Nadeem points out, for years. It's also very difficult to perhaps praise a program and turn round and say "yeah, this program's working well for me..." because I'd guess there's an element of "i'm keeping this one to myself". I don't know.

In the end, sorry I do apologise for the waffling, a forum is as good as the users it has.. and it's therefore up to the ones on it to get on and participate not perhaps necessarily worry about the ones who don't.

I'll be quiet now

Jason

**Matthew Wood** · 09-11-06

An interesting discussion, I agree with some of the comments and we'll take note.

We intentionally took the focus away from 'networks' to vertical forums as I agree with Jason that it should be less about the networks and more about the programs and individual sectors.

I wonder what would happen if we took away the network forums altogether?

As for rants and raves about programs thats a hard issue, we always get stick when we censor posts and threads, and some users out there use the forum to vent frustration and problems they are having personally with programs. This is not really how the forum should be used.

We are looking to update the forum early next year, that should see a number of changes. I'd be interested to hear what you would like to see here.

Thanks,
Matthew.

**drivetowin** · 09-11-06

I think the problem with removing the network forums is that at the moment they do provide a single point to look for news from that network (for those networks who use the forum responsibly) - if the forums all became vertical channels I think it would be easier to miss important announcements as (for example - I do very little in gambling - so very rarely check that forum) - so could miss an announcement if it was only made in that forum. 9 times out of 10 that probably would not matter but the 1 time out of 10 could be important to me, the merchant, and the network.

I'm not sure about the less friendly bit - yes in a way it is but I think that's a natural part of growth - there are probably a couple of hundred regular contributors to this forum and as in the real world if you put 200 people in the same place day in day out (and for some people (not me!!) this place is their only social interaction with other people on a regular basis) - disagreements from time to time are inevitable. On the other side of the coin, the support I have received in the last year from members of this forum has been incredible, yes, a lot of it from the 'established' members but lots from new members too.

I do wonder (and I've seen this on other forums) whether there should be levels of posting and certainly think there should be a 'New Members' section, where everyone has to post something before they can post elsewhere in the forum. My thinking would be something like

New Member - post in New Members forum only
Less than 5 posts - post in Lounge and Real World but nowhere else
More than 5 posts - post anywhere as now.

Hopefully that would make the spam which seems to proliferate from time to time easier to moderate too.

I think as well that if everyone could stop and think for 10 seconds before they hit the send button "If I was standing 3 feet away from this guy/girl/merchant/network now, would I say what I am about to say" - if the answer in your heart of hearts is Yes than fine go ahead and say it, if the answer is no, then self moderate your post to something more acceptable.

This does not mean no criticism, I can be as vocal on here as anyone, but (and this is not being arrogant) I hold the respect of all of the networks because they all know there is nothing I say on here that I will not say direct to them in person (and at meetings with them often have done).
Equally, I'm not too big to apologise when I have overstepped the mark - there has only been one occassion recently when I made an off the cuff comment which went too far and I had no problem in apologising to the affiliate manager involved.

**Mogga** · 09-11-06

Have some networks got shareholders?

Anything which might affect share price is a nono and thats a big reason why some might not.

Some networks get slagged off a lot ... thats why they might stay away.

Anyway what do you want from networks?

Admission of a problem? Acknowlegdment that they're sorting it out.

We could have a "stats delayed" warning light on each of the forums for networks.
A "network aware" for noting on threads that a problem has been spotted by support.

Thats one thing I definately use the forum for - to ask if its just me and my connection with a problem - if it is then I know I need to sort it out, and if its not I know to try and contact a network about it, or find their status page
(Something the networks might be happy to have a link to if they have one)

There are lots of ways networks can react positively to the forum - the ones that do definately get more time and attention from affiliates I think...