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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

Yes i agree the networks need to pull their fingers out.

I was shopping online last night for some Chrimbo presents, thought i'd get some DVD's and CD's, after reading this thread i thought i'd check the headers on the ppc adds for these well known brand names (they were brand name only searches) and two of them turned out to be affiliate URL's. Thought i'd dive into the network accounts of each to see their keyword policies...guess what no brand name bidding allowed of any sort.

Its that kinda thing that gives affiliate marketing a real bad name, the networks blame the affiliates to the merchants but i blame the networks!!
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Old 07-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

I agree with Hpops points also.

Yes its the networks responsibility, but to date we have yet to experience a network that has alerted us to any breaking of brand bidding restrictions.

Kieron: Decreased CPA... which sector is this in if you dont mind me asking? I haven't come across this and would be interested to know if the affiliates involved only sit on brand terms. From our point of view, we would pay higher CPA to PPC affiliates if they carry out generic activity and we would still allow some brand activity for them.

Keith: I agree about policing. The warnings issue is a joke - On a couple of occassions, we have applied a three strikes and you're out policy, had to suspend a couple of affiliates after speaking to them directly, only for the affiliates have been placed back on program by the network without us knowing!:eek:

I guess one of the reasons we run some closed PPC groups is that we can rely on these affiliates not to break the rules and they cant hide behind the networks.
There's no requirement to get in though. The whole 'tender' thing sounds like giving your secrets away!
If you want to do some brand PPC, get in touch with the merchant and discuss the opportunities available. If they say no, work the generics and then go back to the merchant and say look at the results, now give me a shot. If you haven't produced the results, then why would they let you sit on the brand if you cant produce on generics! If you have, then they would be foolish to turn you away.

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Old 07-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchy View Post
Kieron: Decreased CPA... which sector is this in if you dont mind me asking? I haven't come across this and would be interested to know if the affiliates involved only sit on brand terms. From our point of view, we would pay higher CPA to PPC affiliates if they carry out generic activity and we would still allow some brand activity for them.
Its across many sectors to be honest. It works like this, you have 2 accounts with an affiliate network. One for generic stuff where you get paid full CPA and another account for brand bidding which is usually at a lower rate.

By having 2 accounts, networks can monitor where sales come from and then pay out accordingly.
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Old 08-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

Brand bidding groups are clearly illegal.

When you form a "closed group" you are forming a CARTEL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

A cartel is illegal in the UK. You are effective fixing prices to keep them low, i.e. "do not bid higher than the brand". This means that Google is getting less money than it would if the market was free and open.
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Old 08-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

It's not a cartel.

Google allow trademark protection, meaning that brandname bidding is not a free + open market. If a brand with trademark protection choose to allow exemption to selected affiliates then they are merely choosing which affiliate sites they would like to represent them in this arena, much the same as they'd choose which newspaper they wanted to run offline advertising in.
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Old 11-12-06
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  Re: Closed PPC Brand Bidding Groups & Anti Competition Legislation

Whenever this topic arises it's always hotly debated but I have to say this thread has a lot of good points from most contributors.

From a network perspective Affiliate Window appreciates that the choice of whether to allow brand bidding lies initially with the merchant. This is not to say that we do not offer advice and best practice, but whatever the outcome it is always a custom solution as one size does not certainly fit all.

In the most part direct brand bidding offers little value unless the merchant is so SEO negative with no PPC themselves or has issues with competitors in the paid search space. (On the other hand do competitors really matter since the traffic is looking for 'brand X'?)

For those who allow brand bidding there is usually some form of added value, whether this be additional generic keywords (as Kieron points out this is closely monitored through secondary accounts) or appearing on affiliate partner sites that add this value through 'product comparison', reviews and ranking.

Of course some networks have been guilty of actively promoting brand bidding to their affiliates as a means of generating extra revenue but for AW this is a short-term view that will effectively terminate the relationship when the merchant discovers what's been going on. Our aim is to work with the merchants through the long term, educating and protecting brand whilst ensuring the traffic they receive from affiliates is considered of the utmost importance. (It only takes a few 'bad apples' to cast doubt over the hard work and traffic of most true affiliates).

To ensure this is managed as effectively as possible we have developed in-house tools to monitor restricted brand bidding 24/7. But this is only the policing tool, merchants first need to understand where the added value lies and identify what they aim to achieve; 100% visibility within the search space, paid or otherwise; brand control; closed group PPC with added generics; 3rd party PPC risk through affiliates instead of an agency, etc.

Where closed groups are considered an option it is usually with tight parameters and often a reduced CPA (but again this varies dependant on the performance of their generic campaigns). The main idea here is for merchants who would traditionally have closed down the PPC channel (either due to previous lack of controls or understanding), to open up and with controls see the benefits this channel can bring. Closed groups do not take away from other PPC affiliates, they actually act as advocates and use their skills prove the positive elements of PPC. Closed groups also ensure that affiliates do not compete with each other, click cost is key on marginal generic terms.

Ian makes some valid points about the how potential partners are chosen and NO, it's not always the same people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian View Post
I doubt its illegal, and exactly how business works. If a merchant decides to do closed group bidding (for a number of reasons) the networks help select the chosen few. Should they

a - go with affiliates with a good track record
b - go with the first few people to apply, who may or may not be any good

The network will go with option 'a' as its the path of least resistance, will make them look good in the eyes of the merchant, and get the job done quickly. If you want to break into the inner circle

- get to know the account managers
- do some good work in generics and make sure they know about it
- ask to be considered next time a group is being formed esp if its in the same industry. see point 1, get to know the account managers, its who you know!

I'm sure its the same in all industries. Take media advertising, if you had £10m to spend would you go for an unknown small ad agency, or with one of the big boys? The small agencies that break into the big time are the ones that make a name for themselves, so some good work with smaller accounts and work their way up.
We welcome new PPC partners but be warned you may need to prove yourself with an extensive generics campaign and most know this will probably end up being break even or costing money. The few who take this risk do so because they know that brand bidding as a reward for generics will balance this out making them profit and a valued partner to the merchant.

It's short sighted to consider that all networks simply advocate brand bidding, some do, we don't. In most instances we are considered responsible for the actions of affiliates, which means we have to offer advice based on value not reward.

This is such a big area and I have only skimmed the surface as some merchants consider their PPC strategy to be private information. What I hoped to highlight was the fact that merchants are generally more savvy than to allow 'closed group' affiliates to just bid on their brand, it all comes down to their approach and the added value they seek.

Kind Regards

Mark Walters
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