Should buy.at publish epc's?

[Malcolm Cowley]

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Hi Everyone

Just wanted to counsel some forum opinion on this subject.

Since we started we have never published network wide epc's. The reasoning for this rightly or wrongly has been due to the feeling internally that commentary was needed to make more sense of the epc's helping affiliates make more informed choices

We considered the figure on its own misleading in some cases even with top and tailing and other measures.

Talking with people though it still seems that even though they know these flaws they would still like the epc's as a general guide and I'm leaning towards agreeing with them as long as they are published with some clear warnings and advice

Right now you can ring and get an epc for a program and get the advice around the flat epc figure from the account management team but I wonder if the community would rather we had this in a more accessable way even if it meant not having the commentary

I'd like your Yes or No on this one and any comments you might have around supporting it or not if you have any please.

Thanks everyone

Mal

[KieronD]

It is a tricky one. Personally I don't take much stock in published EPC's for the reasons you mentioned. Instead I speak to the account manager and ask what the EPC is from say the PPC affiliates. This then gives me an understanding of what can be achieved via my chosen method of promotion.

However I've voted yes as it can give you a very general guideline. And if for instance you notice a high EPC for a merchant that you hadn't considered promoting before, then it may give you a reason to give them a push.

[drivetowin]

I think EPC is useful, but that it should really be top and tailed.

If you could include some other stats too, like conversion rate and approval/rejection percentages that would be even better.

And as Kieron says - if you could break the figures down by say PPC, content and cashback that would be even even better

[Supercod]

Don’t care about other peoples EPC as it pretty much means nothing to me, only interested in my own EPC and you do that already.. Simple reason is different methods produce different results and I found in the past that EPC means pretty much nothing as I proved on many a campaign on CJ where the EPC was shocking yet I managed to make decent incomes and way higher EPC than the average.

I would rather see things like void rates for Merchants as that speak volumes to me however certainly not against extra information as I can chooses to ignore it but EPC over the Network is an extremely flawed statistic that can often punish Merchants that you can do ok out of and then you get the mental Merchants who start cashing high EPC figures at the expense of kicking out perfectly good Affiliates that might be making a few bob but as there user base doesn’t convert as highly as others (I am thinking Competition sites here where we all make loads of money but have to stick a lot more users over to a site to make that money) it’s often these really good Affiliates that face the boot because of EPC chasing.

Take this extreme example to the same merchant

100 clicks and 30 sales is a hell of a lot better EPC than 100,000 clicks and 2,999 a completely mental Merchant would be trying to boot the guy making 2,999 sales as they don’t make there EPC look good… extreme yes but hey as far as I am concerned it’s not that far fetched having experienced this very mental approach form Networks offering EPC network wide.

[EyeOfTheTiger]

Hi Mal,

Yes - I would be interested in network wide epc's.

I know the pitfalls and I know my epc's so I can compare how I am doing on programs and it can also highlight programs I am not a member of that might be worth looking into more.

It's usual for me as a guide but not a bible. It's also usuful for merchants so that they can see how they compare in their sector with their competition and will hopefully therefore raise commissions from underperforming merchants and get them to improve their programs which would benefit both affiliate and network.

You don't need to neccessarily publish them but a simple email spreadsheet like I receive from AFuture detailing EPCs and how many clicks they are based on in my book would be useful.

While travelling the world its difficult to always put in a phone call to the account manager to have a chat...

Although I am back in the UK in two days for a year so thats no excuse anymore.

See you soon mate

Cheers

Mike

[loquax]

I'd echo what Clarke says above. EPC to me is a meaningless statistic - it's rarely qualified in terms of what type of affiliate is generating higher EPC - and therefore is just something for networks/merchants to bandy around to affiliates as a carrot to entice them into a promoting a program.

I think also because I've been harassed by networks/merchants proclaiming that program xyz is "storming" and "it's flying off the shelf" and "has an EPC of 32.5 the highest ever" and other general gibberish, that anything now associated with EPC is essentially meaningless. Even more so, when you question the gibberer about what constitutes the EPC, and then you find out that someone just sent out 12billion emails and "saw great results, why not put up a banner".

EPC doesn't influence the program choices I make, and the only real stat I use these days is the one that has £'s and total in front of them (sorry I'm a total heathen when it comes to stats and analysis of what we're doing).

Instead I'd like to see something that indicates a program is generating sales/leads and that indicates if it's generating sales/leads in the last 15 mins, hour, day, week etc. If you could include some indicator of volume of sales (steaming, hot, cold, ice age, without giving away numbers), then that would be fun too.

Jason

[Malcolm Cowley]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the feedback so far.

The poll results are pretty strong in favour but from the comments in the thread I can clearly see there is other info which you would like presented alongside an epc in order to make a better judgement.

As the network grows making key information available easier is a no brainer to continue that growth and also ease the strain on resources that comes with more manual processes.

If anyone else has an opinion on displaying epc's then let me know

Thanks again guys for taking the time to reply

Mal

[Azam.net]

EPC top and tailed is a useful metric. Yes, it may not be perfect, but it is better the information is readily available than not.

Other statistics, such as average basket size can also help affiliates.

[Wardy]

I personally think the EPC's woul b e good to have even if we can use them just as a guide. Those who don't use them or don't take any notice of them don't have to but some basic stats of how the program performs I htink can only help. Yes obviously people can't judge how the program performs just on these stats but I personally find them usefull and would like to see them (but I think you knew that)

Cheers
Wardy

[Malcolm Cowley]

Well thanks everyone certainly some food for thought - ill all discuss this with the exec team on Tuesday.

Have a great Sunday!

Mal

[Qui Gon Jinn]

why is this being brought up again when lengthy discussions on this over the phone stemming back over a year plus forum debate, i don't know? was there some false assumption that a majority of affiliates wouldn't want epc's

standard prerequisites:

> epc's of merchants - if can split from brand traffic, closed group & generic from ppc, then those direct from sites > then good. then figures top & tailed (an old sugesstion)

> contact details (at least email) for merchants
> pre payment
> network trend graphs
> average validation period & last validation date by merchants
> merchants with closed groups
> compulsary & rapid payment for non tracking, no lingering.
> no creatives with url's or telephone numbers. infact look outside the box on creatives i.e. streaming media with tracking embedded, pay per call, cpm & cpc elements on banners, then we can maximise the monetisation on pages created. Even include ppl on cpa programs so all bases covered.

[QualityNonsense]

Every affiliate knows that EPCs can be misleading, but *any* data is better than *no* data when you're looking for a ready reckoner. Segmentation by traffic type would be a big help, perhaps standard deviation figures too (eg, 90% of affiliate have an EPC between X and Y).

[Frostie]

Could't agree more with what the general consensus is.

Any information you may have to hand could be useful to someone out there. In my current position, I always use the rule of thumb that too much info is better than lack of information. If it can easily be applied or provided, then even better, however if it requires a lot of development or manual hours to produce the 'information', then and only then should you weigh up its worth.

I am presuming this information is a pretty straight forward extract from some database somewhere in tha buy.at offices/datacentre, and as such the actual input required to produce this information is minimal?

Go for it, only after a trial (across the board, not selective affiliates) will you learn how much it is valued.

[ceetee]

So are the experienced affiliates saying networks with global EPC are more profitable than those without? If not I don't see the point of it.

[drivetowin]

No, what we're saying is that EPC is a tool for comparing one programme with another.

While you always have to be careful that you are not comparing apples with pears, EPC does enable you to compare apples with apples where you are comparing merchants in the same sector in the same network.

i.e. Broadband merchant A on network A has an EPC of £1.50
Broadband merchant B on network A has an EPC of 2p

I know which one I would put more effort into promoting.