Should Merchants be allowed to specify Negative keywords

[Shane]

I was just reading well worded update to hotel chocolat ppc terms in the CJ forum when the term "negative keyword list" reared it's head again.

personally I won't add anything to a negative keyword list, stubborn perhaps, but I'm happy not to bid on any brand term a merchant specifies, if they ask me not to bid on competitors I'll even do that, but I won't be told that I MUST add any phrase to a negative keyword list in my account.

Am I alone or does anyone else think telling PPC affs they must use negatives is like saying to the seo guys they can't mention those exact same terms on their site page either ?

Why should PPC which may only account for 20% of the traffic be told we must negative some terms yet seo and content sites which will account for far more business have free reign ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but PPC and Seo are basically identical, the only difference is timescale and control, it's faster to PPC and you can change the listing, url and terms in minutes, SEO is slower and fixed until it updates.

If it's different then I think I'll have to start seo'ing every "negative list" keyword for every merchant and mop up on the uncontested traffic with no ppc listings lol

negative lists need stamping on the head now, or it'll be "here's your 55 exact matched keywords, bid no more than 43p and any affiliate found bidding on any other keywords will be binned immediately"

[Qui Gon Jinn]

100% Spot On

[ChrisBishop]

Shane

You are very welcome to your opinion and naturally working for yourself set your own business rules I am not on forum for arguements or have any hidden agendas.

With regards the PPC guidelines I have set at Hotel Chocolat, I have worked closely with my network, search agency, my internal team; I did consider asking my Mum at one point but most importantly my affiliates...

My merchants/retailers invest phenomenal amounts of resource into the brand experience their consumers receive whether during the experience, in store and now more apparent online. As Online Marketing Manager of Hotel Chocolat is it my responsibility to aim for the highest possible customer experience online but from a holistic point of view to ensure multi-channel brand consistency.

Working closely with my search agency we strategically ensure that all the brand touch points are correct to achieve loyalty beyond reason from our customers. PPC is a the ultimate direct response tool, especially for emerging retailers (such as Hotel Chocolat) and it is one that a merchant can have total control. It is one I have decided to take control of, and I am already pleased by the response from affiliates in respecting that. Day to day I’ll continue working my PPC affiliates (who request/need the assistance) and my search agency to guarantee continual growth in our paid for search results therefore success for Hotel Chocolat online.

If you would like to discuss this further and/or like to become a member of the Hotel Chocolat affiliate program please feel free to contact me and I’ll call you or meet you to discuss.

I’ve worked in affiliate marketing since 1999 and I have seen first hand how the industry has matured year on year, this industry is one I am very passionate about as you can see in the following blog post. It technology and the skills within have become more and more sophisticated and I personally am all for an industry body or team. As the maturity and investment continues on all levels so must the regulations which naturally include PPC.

These do differ from network to network and merchant to merchant but for the longevity of affiliate marketing all parties must continue to promote the self policed best practice.

Thanks

Chris

[UKOffer]

100% agree with you Shane. I never add anything that a merchant specifies to a negative keyword list.

Chris - seeing as you have entered into this discussion, I will use Hotel Chocolat as an example. Lets imagine a scenario whereby I have a website that lists say 5 or 6 sweetie merchants, Hotel Chocolat is one one of them. The site gives favourable reviews to Hotel Chocolat as well as your competitors. I send traffic to this site via Google AdWords PPC. I only bid on generic terms like "chocolate" or "sweets" for example, I do not bid on trademark terms like "Hotel Chocolat".

What makes you think it is acceptable to dictate to me what terms I "must" add to my negative keyword list just because I promote Hotel Chocolat on my site? As Shane rightly says what would happen if visitors came to my site for so called disallowed terms using organic search? Would you want me to take my site down? Maybe take down all references to your restricted keywords? Where will it stop?

If you or your agency are in anyway competent in ppc then you can surely control the way Hotel Chocolat is represented in the PPC search engines to ensure the "highest possible customer experience online but from a holistic point of view to ensure multi-channel brand consistency" as you say.

Like Shane, maybe I'm stubborn but I will not, and never have added any brand names to my generic ppc campaigns negative keyword list. There really is no need, and if any merchant doesn't like it then I'm more than happy to remove all their links.

[Shane]

Hi Chris

Good response, I wasn't particularly singling HC out, it was just that I read it and once again negative list was in there as though it's a standard thing when it is definitely NOT, as I said your update was well worded, it showed you had thought out the policies before posting which often some merchants don't do at all.

I too have no hidden agenda and am not out for aruguments, true I do work for myself and thus can set my own rules, but I'm more concerned helping to ensure the industry I work in isn't geared against us as PPC affiliates, and the way things work as they (if unchallenged) slowly become the accepted norm, my example of "here's your 55 exact matched keywords fight it out at no more than 43p" is probably not that far off for some merchants.

With regard to PPC you say "It is one I have decided to take control of", that's fine you can dictate what terms you want but any affiliates who gleefully run of to add negatives to a list need a spanking, before long on some merchants it'd be a bigger list than what is allowed whilst the SEO and content site guys get free reign umolested.

PPC is no different to SEO except for timescale and control, ie we can get listings up immediately, and then can edit them as required, why should I have to add negatives when search guys don't have to ?.. what's the difference here ? if anything I'll probably get less traffic in general on ppc than I would for a top 3 listing on SEO

As I said I'm not singling HC out, the site is good one, policy is ok except IMO for the negative list request, I'm just very concerned with the growing trend to being told what keywords I must add as negatives even if I agree not to bid on brand terms or competitor merchants... that's simply not on at all. .. I'm happy not to bid on brand, or comeptitors but no way will I add anything as a negative, that functionality is not there for merchant use, google's definition of a negative keyword is "A negative keyword is a kind of keyword that prevents your ads from showing on irrelevant search queries." so if it's IRRELEVANT I'll add it as a negative, if not I won't.

If you wouldn't do it to the seo guys then don't why do some merchants think it's acceptable to do it to the ppc guys ? end of the day it's identical except for timescale ?.. ppc is actually less traffic in many cases yet more stringent .. if you want control why is SEO left alone totally ?

I'm not saying enforce these same negative/brand restrictions on SEO but I am saying leave the ppc guys to do their stuff, most will never accept being told they can't bid on generics, many, whilst not shouting on here about it, will not add negatives either so lets get the negative list slapped out of here now before the lesser informed merchants start trying to add generics in there too.. or way it's going affiliate PPC will eat itself

[renegade]

I have added negative keywords but I really resent this unreasonable intrusion into my business. Merchants which insist on this practice are unlikely to get much enthusiam from me.

[drivetowin]

Have to say even though I concentrate on SEO and not PPC I 100% support what the others have said here.

[ChrisBishop]

I understand I am potentially throwing myself into a Lion's Den here, but I feel it is important as I have raised my decision to back this and explain (And thank you Shane, this decision was made after much deliberation and discussion from various parties) and to speak for the current 40% who voted "YES"

On the flipside you must appreciate merchants need to ensure that affiliates are not running campaigns which potentially may misrepresent the proposition/brand/campaign.

As I put in my updated PPC term and conditions post, “I am well aware the vast majority of you are keeping within the limits and it is a case of a few bad apples, but unfortunately they are undoing the goodwill and hard work invested by our affiliates, our agency and my team here at Hotel Chocolat”

With Hotel Chocolat it reached a point where our offer was misrepresented to which it escalated to numerous Trading Standards complaints. To which after extensive digging we discovered the problem had originated from an unethical PPC affiliate who was using broad and phrase keyword bidding loop holes, as well as bidding out of hours and other mischievous tricks to miss-lead the consumer (appearing as Hotel Chocolat).

It is felt a necessary step to ensure positive continuation of our program rather than ploughing resource into policing!

This debate will I am sure continue to go round in circles but I’d like to think you can appreciate the points from a merchants perspective as I completely do from ethical PPC affiliates.

Thanks

Chris

[D-Mac]

On balance I agree with Chris, due to the risk of a merchant being misrepresented.

E.g. Merchant sells grey widgets. That's all they sell. Affiliate bids on 'white widgets' as it only costs 2p a click and might convert despite the fact that the merchant only sells grey widgets. Customer clicks through to merchant's site, can't find white widgets, and blames the merchant for misleading advertising. Merchant ends up getting a bad reputation. Not all traffic is desirable, even if it is free.

I comepletly understand the problem of ppc vs seo with regard to this issue, and no doubt this will be addressed in time by some merchants too.

I'm not saying I like it, but I can see where merchants with these policies are likely to be coming from. Some merchants will of course misuse negative keyword policies, and I think this is possibly Shane's concern, but if we don't like it we don't have to promote them.