Have You Ditched Next Directory And Other Low Paying Programmes - Poll

[Elaine]

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Maxafi visitors to your site are not looking for Next - if people want Next products, they type in Next.

I'm all in favour of giving visitors choices - that's what my site is built on - and I also include links to merchants who don't have affiliate programmes and don't heavily promote some merchants who pay very high commissions ...

what I won't do is include those merchants who, in my opinion, are simply treating Affiliates like fools and using us as a branding exercise - how much do you think Next pay for their TV and magazine campaigns? and yet offer us a paltry 2% and an insulting 1% on Sale goods.

Why do I get so upset - because if they can prove that we'll still promote them no matter what they offer then, it's a no brainer what's going to happen next - all commission rates will start falling - you act like a doormat and folk will wipe their feet on you.

I appreciate that Affiliate Window are in a difficult position here - I'm sure they never suggested this rate cut and obviously have to support their merchants and try to put a positive spin on their actions - but, in the long run, affiliates aren't doing themselves any favours by kowtowing to big brands!

ps - I shall be blogging about my experience with Next, including my sales figures and the alternative merchants I'm now using, very shortly

[Maxafi]

Maxafi visitors to your site are not looking for Next - if people want Next products, they type in Next.

No, but they may be looking for Next Discount Codes (as an example). Or, they may be comparing the price of something at Next against other retailers. If they have already seen it at Next for £10, and I'm showing the 5 different merchants where the price is £15 but no sign of Next, what will my visitors think then?

but, in the long run, affiliates aren't doing themselves any favours by kowtowing to big brands!

With respect, I think threads like this are actually harming affiliates far more. If I was a merchant, I'd be thinking 'whats the point'. I'll say it again, the way forward is for affiliates to give more value to the merchants and let them compete for the promotion. If we keep p***ing off merchants, one by one they'll just close their programmes - then we'll be left with a handful of merchants in each sector and be at their mercy even more because they don't have to fight for our links.

Too many people think short term in this business.

[drivetowin]

With respect, I think threads like this are actually harming affiliates far more. If I was a merchant, I'd be thinking 'whats the point'. I'll say it again, the way forward is for affiliates to give more value to the merchants and let them compete for the promotion. If we keep p***ing off merchants, one by one they'll just close their programmes - then we'll be left with a handful of merchants in each sector and be at their mercy even more because they don't have to fight for our links.

Too many people think short term in this business.

I'm with you 100% on that one.

While I don't agree with what Next have done, having had a good half hour conversation with Kevin early in December I do understand their reasoning and from a commercial viewpoint (putting yourselves in Next's shoes for a moment), it's hard to argue against - put simply if you can pay 2% and still deliver one of the highest EPCs and best CAVE data in your sector, then why would you pay 3% - it just doesn't make commercial sense to do so. It is very easy as an affiliate to get blinkered to the fact that we are not the only ones in the chain who are looking to maximise our profits - everyone in the chain is and that starts with the merchant.

Put it another way, if you could distribute 10,000 leaflets for £20, why would you pay someone £30 to distribute them - unless you were foolish and/or completely altruistic you wouldn't do it - it just wouldn't make commercial sense.

Elaine - I don't quite follow the logic - you will promote merchants with no affiliate programme at all for no commission but won't promote a high street name for a low rate of commission - so would you be happier if Next pulled their affiliate programme completely then so you could promote them for no return at all?

Before anyone jumps down my throat - no I'm not happy with what Next has done - I've expressed that to Kevin and to Next, but at the same time I'd rather have 2% of something than 100% of nothing.

[KevinEdwards]

Hi Elaine,

I can appreciate your frustrations in light of your explanation for the types of products you were pushing for Next and why you felt you you deserved higher commissions.

We had a meeting with Next a few weeks ago and specifically referenced you and your promotion.

Rachel Humphreys has been pursuing this with Next, however, it's difficult for us to negotiate for you when you're advocating affiliates join you in boycotting the programme.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I can lay my hands on a handful of programmes with similar performance stats that no one has been particularly worried about enough to post about here.

Please enlighten us, then we can infer, maybe suggest or comment .. if lucky maybe roast .. not one eye one ball .. we can multi task.

You know as well as I do, diplomacy rarely works in this industry when the safegauards should have been there in the first place on whichever network, whichever merchant. It's not just about Next , there is a bigger picture too.

PS 5% to 10% of something "else" is even better

[Elaine]

I think you'll find most things at Next are exclusive to Next ( I know I shop there) - and I've just done a quick search and can't find any discount codes either.

and with the utmost respect - you are just so totally wrong, but you keep on kowtowing while I send my traffic to those merchants who respect me and recognise my hard work by paying a FAIR commission. Just as we do at Children's Rooms.

and trust me, I'm thinking very long term by securing my kids futures now!

[Maxafi]

I think you'll find most things at Next are exclusive to Next ( I know I shop there) - and I've just done a quick search and can't find any discount codes either.

To take a quote from the thread title '...and other low paying programmes'. I was, again, speaking generically.

and with the utmost respect - you are just so totally wrong, but you keep on kowtowing while I send my traffic to those merchants who respect me and recognise my hard work by paying a FAIR commission. Just as we do at Children's Rooms.

I think we'll have to just agree to disagree on this.

[KevinEdwards]

Paul,

Diplomacy rarely works? Have to disagree there.

Also, all the programme information (for Affiliate Window) is publicly available.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

If it did work then many of the posts on the forum wouldn't be regurgitating around the same old issues, there are only so many times you can give a network the same old advice.

Any network saying having certain protocols in place to protect affiliates is not viable cos another network won't adopt them is not really the way to go.

How about a network setting a good example by being a leader rather than a ......... which then would get the respect from affiliates & from merchants too for that matter. You did with shopwindow & api, this is the Next one.

Please tell me who has reduced comms, send me an email, i have better things to gp than plough through a whole site.

The sooner affiliates can introduce their own T&C's the better, which will seperate the wheat from the chaff on which merchants really do value the channel, which thankfuly is probably a vast majority, but don't let the odd high profile brand ruin it for the rest.

If you want more budget & merchants in the channel, then networks need to sort the highlighted issues within the industry & we'll have little to complain about. The source of the problem for the outbursts & comments on the forum & blogs stems from networks not having suitable contracts in place with merchants for various eventualities i.e. the problem is right in the doorstep of a network.

Isn't there a word called affiliate in "affiliate marketing"

[Elaine]

Keith - you've hit the nail on the head there, why would they pay more when they can get away with less - my whole argument and where they lead will others follow?

I run a directory and have tons of links which don't have affiliate programmes,
some provide reciprocal links and some are there simply because I like their products (yes I know , I shop at Next) and, funnily enough I would probably have promoted them if they'de never gone down the Affiliate route.

and I'd rather have 6 - 8% than 2% - I'll say it again if someone's looking for Next stuff they're going to type in NEXT.

Kevin - I've already expressed my appreciation to Rachel and Affiliate Window for trying to help and negotiating with Next on my behalf.

The only reason I didnt remove them when they originally reduced their commission by 25% was their inference that they would be looking at introducing commission categories, similar to John Lewis - so yes I am mighty frustrated (aka bloody furious) at this latest turn of events.

The fact that they don't deem it necessary to reward those affiliates who don't attract tons of returns makes a mockery of their explanation for reducing commissions and I feel as though I've been royally lead up the garden path.

Boycotting - yes I suppose I am, I really do feel that strongly about it. I see it as a form of bullying - 'We're so big we can do what we like, and you Affiliates can lump it or like it' - well I choose not to like it and will post a full explanation on my blog - as soon as I can figure out how to access the admin section!

ps Keith - those leaflets - I'd ask £40+ but provide a much better service!

[drivetowin]

The sooner affiliates can introduce their own T&C's the better, which will seperate the wheat from the chaff on which merchants really do value the channel.

But T&C's are a two way street Paul - it's easy for us to say we want this, we want that, we want merchants to jump through hoops and pay us high commissions - but in reality of all the elements in the affiliate relationship, the ones who have minimal contractual obligations at the moment are the affiliates.

Yes ok I know we have ppc conditions and stuff but what if merchants started saying "ok, you can have higher commissions but only if you promote us on your website exclusively - i.e. if Next said ok, 5% commission but you can't promote any other fashion retailers"

or - that you couldn't drop promotions for merchants even if they were making you a loss without giving the merchant 30 days notice

or - merchants start demanding compensation for affiliate website downtime.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be better terms and conditions (and more importantly that networks should put more effort into enforcing terms and conditions and getting better contracts in the first place - god only knows how many hours I have spent trying to get them to sharpen their act on that one) - but sooner or later we're going to have to accept that t&c's will start to have a real effect on affiliates too.

[Elaine]

I've now managed to get into my blog and have written in full about my experience with Next - although it did take me 2 attempts -doh!!

Elaines Space

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I am curious to ascertain if this account is managed directly with the merchant or via an agency, and if an agency which particular one.

PS Elaine, good blog post .. Darth Robin Hood

[Hero]

Put it another way, if you could distribute 10,000 leaflets for £20, why would you pay someone £30 to distribute them

because you wouldn't be able to find someone to accept £20, especially if others are offering you £40 - you get what you are willing to accept, Keith. Just because you know that these leaflets will indeed be popular and you'll finish distributing them in half the time than others, is not reason to accept less than what you're worth, in my opinion. Provided you know what you're worth

Maxafi, I respect your view, but just one question: Kelkoo, shop.com, shopping.com etc etc all have their own customers who they want to service. Have you ever seen them listing merchants who are not paying or paying 1p per click? No. So why do affiliates do exactly that? Or do you feel that you can only be selective when reaching the size of these companies (who, lest we forget, used to be CPA affiliates but never listed someone without an affiliate program)?

Let me clarify, nothing against the network or the merchant, I respect both of them.

[John Jupp]

Well I am going to hum and har over this issue because we're facing a similar position.

The downturn in the US and the UK with extremely competitive consumer pricing and factory gate prices being what they are and we're going to have to review our 8%,10% and 12% commissions soon for one merchant.

We will probably drop to just two tiered structures of 6% and 10% with a greater margin introduced for the higher level. This shall probably take place towards the end of February.

Zero commissions or 1-2% though is taking the pizzle.