Next Affiliate Program - The Facts

[Qui Gon Jinn]

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Common Frostie i know you want more pounds of flesh, especially re unanswered questions. I can visualise you chomping at the bit with fingers hovering over the keyboard & twitching patiently.

[fionah]

The questionnaire, which imo is overly intrusive, needs to be adapted and/or made voluntary. You don't need to know blogs, usernames, etc etc etc... it will come in time as a relationship develops but in a questionnaire to apply for a program is a bit ott.

O.k fair enough. I will ensure that the request for blog addresses and usernames is optional from now on, however it is important for both next and affiliates to be aware of various affiliate promotions so we can address the different types of affiliates appropriatly.

3. You (or Next) need to understand that if you do things right, you get positive results for your brand... do things wrong and you get negative responses. Work out why your brand is receiving criticism - to help you it's not the affiliate side of things.

Solve the answer to (3) and moving forward should be a breeze....

Jason

Thanks Jason, I really hope we can moving forward.

[Frostie]

Not chomping Jason... honest... I am more selective over who I chomp on!

I am just watching the questions and answers, finding it very interesting. I am looking forward to see the response to Matts question;

That said I don't agree with way next have handled the situation and certainly do not agree on what I presume is the instruction by next to not allow 'vocal' affiliates onto the programme.

Fiona can you confirm that it was indeed on the instruction of next head office? or was this an internal i-level decision?

And sorry, but I am being brought into discussion again...

This is a very good point, however merchants do not pay thousands of pounds a year to customers who voice negative opinions of them.

Yes they do! Its called constructive critiscm for crying out loud. They can't expect people to sing the praises of a programme that is complete and utter crap! If they do, then they are worse idiots than I ever imagined! Is anyone actually relaying this information to Next?

A more realistic quote, that I think you should take back to Next management is this;
Affiliates do not generate thousands of pounds for a merchant that will not answer for their actions, that use bully tactics and that generally destroy their own programme. They promote their competition.

Tell them that, and tell them to wake up to reality before it really is too late! Just look at how much damage has already been done and yet still, Next think us affiliates should be appreciative!

They are the laughing stock of the Affiliate Marketing Industry right now! Have you relayed this to Next or are you shielding them from the very horrible truth?

[loquax]

Not chomping Jason

Deffo no chomping here.

Jason

[Supercod]

This is a very good point, however merchants do not pay thousands of pounds a year to customers who voice negative opinions of them.

That is you assuming you would get the sales anyway, you should be thinking "these affiliates are sending us hundreds of thousands of pounds in sales, how can we get more sales and fix the issues they have" sadly you see it as the merchant giving affiliates money (probally for doing nothing from the sounds of it) when in fact it's hard earned and lets face it clothes are clothes at the end of the day I am sure a few competitors of Next will be happy to take the customers affiliates send and I am also sure next won't lose any sleep over it.

Dam I just replied to this thread, that will be me band from joining the program and the Gestapo will have a file on me now

While I am here I would like to give a wave to the 2 networks that Next are on and who don't have the balls to comment, nice work guys, leave Fiona with no back up or advice on how to handle Affiliates and the forum.

[fionah]

It seems Next and their management company is finally getting what they deserve for all the disrespect and lying they demonstrated...

When NEXT was on AWin I worked with them for a couple of months, generating 20-30k in sales per day, before they went into "budget problems" and decided to ban me as violating network T&C and seize over 13,000 pounds earned in Affiliate Window account.

Mark Walters from Awin controversially dictated that sending visitors from unused type-in domains was "forcing a click to a merchant, counter to their network code of conduct", even though their "network code" had nothing to do with this. All other networks confirmed this practice is perfectly acceptable (unless, of course, there is a TM conflict, which wasn't applicable in this case).

You will have to remind me of the specific circumstances however it looks like you were found to be using adware to generate clicks? Definite no no which will result in immediate suspension from the program.

they run a competition to win bonuses but to the best of my knowledge it was never completed and bonuses never paid

The competition was completed last year and vouchers were awarded to the following affiliates.

Shop Safe - £1000 vouchers
High Street UK - £200 vouchers
Holiday Brochure - £100 vouchers
Top Deals - £100 vouchers
British Catalogues - £100 vouchers

Although Holiday Brochure and Top deals I'm still waiting for confirmation on your address details...

[getvisible]

Perhaps i-level should take their own advice - and shouldn't be suprised when a few people complain vocally how their campaign is being viewed:

Web is a powerful force for activism

Incoherent, messianic, slightly bonkers. Even the control-freakiest of Hollywood stars let their carefully crafted images slip from time to time, and so it was with Tom Cruise, whose video for the Scientologists has been doing the rounds on YouTube for the past few weeks.

and will they be winning one of these this year?

http://www.i-level.com/home/queensaward2007.pdf

or is this one more apt?

Lack of strategy is tactical error

[Utterfly]

You will have to remind me of the specific circumstances however it looks like you were found to be using adware to generate clicks? Definite no no which will result in immediate suspension from the program.

Fionah, we had been in a good e-mail communication with you and AW, before NEXT started to tighten affiliate budget, you found ways to terminate affiliation, stopped responding and AW unprecedently banned my entire account with 13k in it. If you pay attention to the original post, NEXT sales were generated from type-in domains, nothing to do with adware:

Direct navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type-in traffic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not requesting you to comment on this matter, this is posted here only for the attention of other affiliates who are still considering whether to deal with the "Best New Merchant of 2007"..

[fionah]

So my question is.......does Next pay commissions for sales outside the UK and in places where franchises operate and where customers in those countries can buy online and use the store collection service (Ireland,Spain ..any others?). There was a similar issue with La Senza in that they only validated UK online sales even though they linked worldwide and customers could collect from franchised stores so affiliates with high overseas traffic were getting nothing for sales generated outside the UK.

Each site is independent and customers cannot order from the UK site and have delivery in Spain and vice versa. Customers who order from Next.co.uk cannot have delivery outside the UK unless they are BFPO. It is not possible to collect UK orders in Ireland or Spain.

[drivetowin]

Fiona

Firstly, thank you for entering into dialogue on the forum - while some will say it is too little too late, I think we have had more dialogue from you in the last few hours than we have had since i-Level took over the Next programme - let's hope this is an indication of the better communication which was promised when Next moved to affili.net and buy.at but never really materialised.

I think it is probably just your way of writing but you do in this thread on occasion come over as flippant and given the strength of affiliate feeling surrounding Next (I don't thing I have seen such depth of feeling since the ASOS debacle), this is not a desirable attribute, so you may wish to read your posts a couple of times before clicking the submit button (a much wiser man than me once told me "when speaking (or writing) in public, be sure your words are soft and sweet - for you never know when you may have to eat them later".)

That you have agreed to make the blog and a4u user name fields on your form optional is a step forward (though I don't really see why you can't go one step further and remove them altogether - they are rather Orwellian) - but more worrying is that you have only done so after howls of protest - I assume (and would certainly hope) that you/Next did not seek/chose to ignore the opinion of the network(s) before issuing the questionnaire.

I think the competition Utterfly is referring to is the competition for increased sales on your new network(s) as opposed to AW. This is the one which was due to start on the missed implementation date of 29th February and eventually started some 10/11 days later. At the time I asked if it was going to be extended past the original deadline to take into account the late start but as is too often the case with i-Level/Next, it was a tricky question so was ignored.

I must admit that I think you / Jonny are in the wrong career - you should be politicians - your ability to ignore questions and/or answer the question you wanted to be asked is really something to admire from afar.

Nonetheless, having said all of the above, the key issue is how to move forward. For me this means:-

a) Next/i-Level sticking their head above the parapet and no ifs, no buts, but saying simply "Sorry, we got it wrong but now we're listening".

b) The instant reinstatement of any affiliate who has been barred from the programme solely for posting constructive criticism

c) A retraction of your 'pollution' statement and recognition that constructive criticism is good for everyone in the long term

d) Recognition from i-Level/Next that having an affiliate on their affiliate programme is a privilege granted to them by the affiliate and not vice versa - you must realise that there are dozens of clothing merchants, so it is you who needs to attract affiliates, not the other way round.

e) Next /i-Level convening a meeting at the earliest possible date with their new networks and those affiliates who have expressed constructive criticism to have a full critique of the Next affiliate programme and devise a way forward acceptable to all parties.

ps: If you/Next would like some training in affiliate management (and training that gets real results - don't take my word for it, ask some on this forum who have been on one of my courses), please get in touch by pm.

[Elaine]

however merchants do not pay thousands of pounds a year

and herein lies the crux of the matter - whoever is in charge of the Next affiliate programme - and this isn't aimed at Fionna - obviously comes from the Asos school of affiliate marketing and really does believe that they PAY US thousands of pounds which we don't actually EARN.

They really do believe it's 'money for old rope', and possibly resent the amounts they pay us and reckon we don't deserve to be treated with civility, respect and honesty because we're just 'grubby' affiliates who try to get as much as possible for as little as possible.

Well one or two affiliates might look on their 'part time' earnings as 'money for old rope' and others might try to game the system - but the vast majority of affiliates, myself included, work far harder and for far longer than any 9 - 5er, and are willing to take the risks which result in a profitable partnership between merchants and affiliates.

We don't insist on being treated with kid gloves, lauded with free gifts and compliments and be given the highest commission rates. We're quite willing to listen to reasoned arguments and work with merchants for the benefit of all - and that includes, sometimes, having to take a cut in commission - BUT we won't be dictated to, lead up the garden path and treated like imbeciles. There's far too many decent programmes around for us to choose from - we, simply , don't have to put up with that sort of treatment.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

While I am here I would like to give a wave to the 2 networks that Next are on and who don't have the balls to comment, nice work guys, leave Fiona with no back up or advice on how to handle Affiliates and the forum.

There goes another cup of tea all over my monitor ... Have they had to sign a NDA?

Reading some of the replies from other members, there is some very good advice & food for thought.

[rm94531]

It is not unreasonable for a merchant to understand where their marketing budgets are being directed.

You are having a laugh !

Clearly, you fail to understand Affiliate Marketing, the the budget invested is a performance budget investment, not a sunk marketing cost, by definition the budget invested has an embedded ROI, which is effectively risk free to Next !

If you intend to make claims, make sure actually understand the nature of the claim that you make, and the voracity therein, and have the ability to evidence it !

[rm94531]

Contact details are available for affiliates to use if and when they have any concerns regarding the program. We always address any direct critisism or queries regarding the program when approached directly.



It is not unreasonable for a merchant to understand where their marketing budgets are being directed.



I think its important that next and i-level work work closer with affiliates going forward and we will be contacting top tier affiliates about a get together shortly.

Hi Fionah, Nice to finally see a response covering the points, am sure others will have far more to say than I but one point stood out for me.



"flagged up" !? Google aren't going to do anything about this except suggest you remove broad match and use phrase or exact match instead or negative match the M&S terms.

Currently you can't turn expanded broad match off if using broad matched keywords and they won't tell you specifically what you could show for so expecting google to do something about it suggests some naivety and a lack of knowledge regarding how adwords works, on the part of the person getting in touch with them

your ad is still showing on that term (and many more M&S related ones) even now every 5th or so impression for me, perhaps for once it's an agencies turn to add a negative keyword

on the score of polluting the search space.. it's analogy time :

Affiliate marketing program reputation/ public relations is like a sewage or wine tap flowing into a lake.. the tap is small and when flowing for a small time it makes no difference to the lake but if left to run for a long time without interruption the lake is eventually polluted or sweetened, it depends what is flowing out of the tap and how long it's left to run untouched !

For Next it wasn't wine and it was left running way too long, and now the backlash has evolved to a negative vibe for them, the solution as far as Next/I-level are concerned is to pull out the fish that "behaved" and shun those that whinged about the pollution... a VERY short sighted view IMO

well at least there's a dialogue going now although with words like "pollute" being thrown about I still think it's heading for a scuffle behind the bike shed at playtime

I am certain that Sir Stuart Ross and the M&S legal team will be interested in the above !

[jess1]

Hi Fiona
Owch, I would have run your post by a mod first :0)

So I take it that Next pay you for professional consultancy (advice). So Next went out there and did their due diligence with regards to bespoke media agency and you won the contract?

So your professional expertise has now landed you in one of the biggest conflicts in the history of affiliate marketing (just thinking out loud). Not only has next now got to do some damage control but now your agency has come under the spot light for all the wrong reasons. The client came to you for guidance, they trusted that you knew what you were doing. The title affiliates4u suggest a forum where chances are you are going to find a few affiliates, so using words like “polluting” shows a degree of ignorance impo and I don’t mean that as an insult, just tells me you have not done your home work.

I have been looking at your competitors and I have to ask myself the question, where is the conflict there? I have to concede that managing an affiliate program is also about managing a clients expectations, some times maybe you have to go against the grain and do things that you as an agency would not want to do. But there seems to have been a pattern developing, if we go back in time. Maybe ilevel should have walked away from Next or at the very least put a case study together to prove an alternative scenarios? So if they had to lower commissions, can happen.. then how could you compensate that? Maybe for affiliates free P&P, it is possible to take with one hand and give with the other. As a few have already mentioned. Working with brands… all they need is for you to show them the numbers to back up what you are advising them to do. 1% Owch that would have been too tough for me and I would have refused to even have entertained the idea.

It’s not worth holding onto a brand just because it’s a brand and a good client to flirt with and put into pdf presentation to seduce other clients into the company.
Educate the ones that want to be educated and walk away from those who think they know better. If ilevel were taken on for their expertise then its evident that ilevel are being lead by Next, therefore impo they deem themselves as experts, in which case they don’t need you, or… ilevel have instigated and advised, what ever… it doesn’t really matter now.

BUT… take it all on the chin.. I think you have done the right thing by opening up dialogue and Ill not take that away from you. Im sure ilevel will take note and maybe change a few things so that all parties can move forward.

lastly, I too have to ask hunn, where is buy.at and affili.net they should be here to support you, your client and your decisions.