Next Affiliate Program - The Facts

[Utterfly]

Dear Mark Walters,

Dear all,
In short, no one questions direct type in traffic for domain owners. We do not however, expect an affiliate to serve pop-ups on these domains automatically dropping affiliate cookies for merchant programmes.

You still aren't sincere, are you?
In our communication you specifically outlined "type-in" traffic as "forced clicks",
because, as you explained, "user did not click on a link". This was your most significant argument when I last heard from you. As for the pop-ups you know it wasn't a real source of NEXT sales. The domain you pasted here as an example serves pop-ups with advertiser's javascript or with a landing page of CPA advertisers who would convert only during the active session.

There is really no point in this discussion, because the only real thing one would want to look is how much NEXT sales has decreased without my traffic brining them 20-30k in sales per day.

[Shane]

20-30k per day in sales..

no offence intended utterfly, and as I don't know the indepth specifics of the case it's only speculation and opinon but either the network are spot on or they are mad as fish!

based on track record and the fact there's a 30% override of millions in sales at stake I'd say it's most likely the former and they are spot on and your traffic was outside the scope of the T&C's so they binned you, very annoying i can imagine, but WHY would they bin T&C compliant traffic ?!?

20k-30k per day is 600k to 900k in sales per month, or 7.2 million to 10.8 million in sales.. would give you uto about 216k in "commission" (I use that term losely as IMO the 2% doesn't coun't as commission lol) and the network would have been paid around 64k as override on 30% of the 216k you were paid over the year

now which network is going to turn 64k a year of genuinely generated commission down to annoy one affiliate or "cheat" him out of sales ? would make no sense..

[Utterfly]

now which network is going to turn 64k a year of genuinely generated commission down to annoy one affiliate or "cheat" him out of sales ? would make no sense..

I don't want to hijack this thread, my intention of posting here originally was to add to the discussion of unscrupulous NEXT/I-level relation with affiliates, by including known to me facts of hiding their tracking problems on Awin. As for some answers to your questions - I will send you PM.

[8601cam]

Dear Denys,

Previous experience tells me you'd be back and we would again begin dancing in circles.

I too have no intention of hijacking this thread but for reasons you cite:

unscrupulous NEXT/I-level relation with affiliates

Your relationship with NEXT and i-Level was unscrupulous but only from your side. In this instance they were both informed, patient and took council regarding your activity and the decision to remove you from the programme was taken jointly. However the decision to remove you from the network was Affiliate Window's alone. Your inclusion adds no value, hence my previous and subsequent post for clarity. I see no value in diverting real affiliate concerns and discussion within this thread.

No network takes the decision to remove an affiliate lightly; it requires careful analysis, feedback, justification and proof.

Shane, thanks for your post let's hope common sense prevails and affiliates can make up their own minds.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Qui Gon Jinn]

It appears that the person who headed the affiliate team at i-level (and the Next Account) may no longer be there now or soon & is moving on to head the European branded response at AdLINK who also own Affilinet who are also one of the networks which Next moved to. Thus another circle is formed.

Draw your own conclusions ... join the dots ...

[Matthew Wood]

I don't really care where Newaz is moving to, but I have to disagree with your presumption Paul. I think It's dangerous to make them without knowing the full facts, what the client requires, their experience, and actually being at the tenders with each network.

Whilst Affiliate Window is an excellent network so are Affilinet and buy.at and I don't think you are giving them enough credit.

[hatmatic]

I think it's a little bit unfair to focus on this. No doubt there is some link in that the person you mention had a good relationship with Affilinet, and they with him, but I am lead to believe the Next re-pitch was a pretty detailed pitch process, with a lot of networks in the mix to begin with, whittled down over time to the final two selected, and that the merchant themselves were active in the decision process.

We are in a relationship business are we not? We work with a lot of networks, but not all, and the ones we do work with, or alongside are the ones who pick up the phone, who keep in touch, who show us the work they are doing, and who demonstrate to us that they are involved in the industry, at least in the industry we're in.

We have worked with Affilinet and Buy.at, as well as AWIN and DGM and OMG and others, and I think it takes a lot away from the final two selected networks, and the work they put in on this pitch, if you allow yourself to focus on the suggestion that there was something underhand going on.

Matt

Hatmatic.co.uk - About us

[Qui Gon Jinn]

For the two self appointed spokespersons for any of the aforementioned implied companies .

Matt Wood,

As you know when we discuss on msn or in person we disagree on a number of issues within affiliate marketing, but hey if you want to surface them all publically, or make presumptions, then I am all for it & let the forum be the judge. I prefer to be a realist & do not indulge in Fantasy or Virtual Affiliate Marketing wearing those rose tinted glasses.

Hatmatic

Congratulations on post number 5. Is it down to original training of individuals or how training is inferred & any buddy my buddy syndromes? I can only refer to my previous comments along the lines of the following. However when representing a client, should representatives within an agency with personal biases, relationships with networks or personel & any coercions cloud what is in the professional best interest off the client, thus preventing anyone being pimped or the client being an unfortunate pawn.

Were all suitable networks given suitable opportunity to pitch or even heard? Only those networks can comment which on & off the forum I can appreciate is different. For Europe beyond "Ireland", TD, Webgains, CJ might have been possibly suitable candidates, for the UK there are obviously more options we are familiar with.

The bottom line is there are a number of factors all intertwined which has led to the demise in the "current" status of this program, there are enough blogs & forum posts relating to it & it's up to each individual to infer their own stance & personal opinions without prejudice. Where you have yours & I have mine.

You have implied things I probably too have heard / been informed / discussed on the rumour mill / grapevine, but wouldn't publish unless substantiated which are a little more unsavory than I am prepared to post.

PS Link Properties on phrase at 00:45am on search "Next Directory"

Sponsored Links
Your Next Online
Next Clothes & Home Furnishings
With Over 400 Stores Nationwide
Next.co.uk

http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai.../101/next.html

Other redirects on the main page too for certain programs.

[hatmatic]

Hi Paul,

You asked me a question so I'll answer it. I posted because I found a post that I had an opinion on, and had something I wanted to post a reply about. That's a forum isn't it? (that's rhetorical).

My post was only that the networks who pitched and got the business got the credit they deserved, and from the output I received from Buy.at and Affili.net, this was a fairly won & well contested pitch process.

I didn't say anything about "coercions", or personal relationships, you are welcome to your views, as you know, I wave a hand to credit where credit is due. All I suggested was that people refrained from focusing on some kind of inside / underhand activity, nothing more.

That's post 6 - wooo hooo

[drivetowin]

I think at the end of the day we are in a 'people' industry - which means rightly or wrongly we all have people/merchants/affiliates/networks who are our 'favourites' .

With my consultancy hat on there are three or four networks I regularly refer clients to and others that I steer clients away from. While I would like to say that the decision is always objective, hand on heart there is always a subjective element - I like to put my clients with people I like working with and who I believe will do the best job for my clients.

What I would say though is that with the exception of the odd curry, no network I deal with has ever attempted to curry favour (sorry for the pun) with me in any way financially or otherwise in the form of any tangible or intangible benefit - and long may it be so. I place my clients (as I'm sure Matt (hatmatic) and Matt (existem)) do, with the network I think will do the best job for them, not the one who is giving me a backhander or has made any promises of benefits either now or in the future.

Next and i-Level held an open tender process which Affili.net and Buy.at won. Some affiliates may have an issue with the chosen networks but I think allegations of some sort of underhand deal whether open allegations or less than subtle suggestions do nothing to help the image of the industry as a whole. I have suggested previously that Next may wish to be open on their reasons for choosing the networks they did as certainly if I were making a list of networks, for their many strengths, I would not put European expansion as being a strength for buy.at as opposed to other networks - but we were not part of the tender process so maybe i-Level / Next were party to plans for Buy.at expansion that the rest of us are unaware of.

I would hope anyone who knows me would never accuse me of being an affili.net or buy.at puppet. I have openly said that I believe the decision for Next to leave Affiliate Window was the wrong decision, but I do not for one minute believe that there was coercion or collusion in the decision to go with affili.net and buy.at.

[FeFiFoFum]

You have very valid points Keith & Matt.

The fact is some agencies do have “preferred” suppliers, just as affiliates have preferred networks, mainly because they do a good job and the agency feels comfortable working with them. As a network this can work against you but you have to accept this and either move on or try to proactively change their opinion. Much of it is relationship driven but as a network we have to back that up with consistent results. Pitches generally consist of many stages with detailed proposals, presentations and meetings - the client involved at every stage.

While I don't feel the need to justify our network ... anyone that works with us will know that we try to deliver an open, honest and professional service to our clients (affiliates, advertisers, agencies). I think this is backed up with our client list. Our team have been in the industry for many years and have good reputations built up by delivering results. Any insinuations otherwise are completely unfounded.

For clarification affilinet have networks in Germany (Switzerland & Austria), France, Spain, Netherlands and will shortly be opening in Italy. Our European reach was one of the reasons for our selection but I also hope it’s down to our team which does a great job.

As always if anyone has any issues with any of our programs please raise them direct with our team who will be more then happy to follow up and help. You can find all our details in our forum.

Cheers. Pete.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

The fact is some agencies do have “preferred” suppliers, just as affiliates have preferred networks

The difference between an agency & an affiliate, is quite obvious, an affiliate is representing themselves whereby an agency or anyone within an agency is "meant" to represent their client.

Nice sales pitch Pete, which anyone can give, funny how you choose to ignore private messages via msn when asked and only now have any "courageousness" to poke the head above the parapet on anything related with Next, do you feel slightly safe or something that a conversation might bend your way slightly? I'll let bad cop chat with you at the next AMC meeting rather than any more verbose corporate mission statements/ garbage on the forum.

Hatmatic sorry mate no respect.[full stop]

Matador Matt Wood I do realise owning a forum you get placed in an impossible position, very much like some (not all) networks being a buffer & being pummeled from all directions.

Was the pitching process fair, depends how that is interpreted. Were some discluded? Yes if based on what some said. We know in theory how it's "meant" to work & how most probably put into good practice, but sometimes it doesn't work out like that. Who the business goes to eventually doesn't affect my pocket, it's the process & predictability.

What has been predictable all along is how this has panned out from Elaines original post & "in my opinion" the behaviour towards & disrespect to affiliates by all those inert parties involved.

Once again we seem to be neglecting historical & track records of parties.

Pete, a question

Anyhow as Matt(s) wanted to share divulge names on the forum, I put to you like i did in private on msn, has a former i-level employee joined or about to join Adlink or Affilinet.

I also refer to John's braced question ... it was so good .. he asked it twice.