Discount Code Sites and Forced Clicks & IFRAMES

[loquax]

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Before anyone says 'forced click' - is this any more of a forced click than a content site that has a link saying 'click here for more info' when in reality all that link does is take the user to the merchant site, (and plant a cookie in the process).

But click here for more info tells a user they're going to another site (imo) as it's usually within some context.
Click here for discount code tells a user they're getting a code on that page (imo)

Now some discount sites get round this by having "click here to get code and visit site" - which seems to be ok - although is it a pop up (which in the past hasn't been deemed ok - e.g. if user ends up on page about Merchant X and Merchant X's website appears in the background).

It's all a confusion I guess and requires networks to say something.

Fortunately some networks like Linkshare, Webgains and Paid on Results and some enlightened merchants like Starblu are now helping to resolve this issue.

It's all well and good networks putting stuff in place, but merchants need to use the tools provided. Just looked at Webgains voucher code section and only ONE merchant is listed! There are 9 merchants on POR....

Jason

[aotagain]

Isn't the reason for the lack of merchants using the network tools because not that many merchants understand the problems and also not many merchants have decided for themselves what they believe is an OK click and a not OK click, and also what implications there are for their business for each type of click they allow.

Seems to me there are a lot of sides to the arguments and as its not going to be easy to get any sort of definitive right or wrong answers - certainly not in the short term, apart from the iframes one which a lot of people seem to agree on.

Couldn't we stick an information list up somewhere (pros and cons?) for merchants, to say here's the different types of click that happen - so merchants can at least consider which ones they do and don't like for their program and then they could monitor them in some form ?

[zaq]

"click here to get code and visit site" is 100% fine internet users but not fine when their is no code and you just trying to get your cookie in their browser.


But i do see merchants who did offer a discount code at some point then stop but the webmasters dont have time or forget to update their merchant page but to think webmasters are trying to steal merchants sales be saying their have discount codes which they dont is total bull.

If they play that game their visitors will not use site again so they lost the regular visitor to another discount code site.

[Cheapdvds]

Click here to see code or use code or use code and open retailers site is surely still a forced click.

an un forced click would be displaying the code and then giving the option for the user to click to open a retailer window , or even click here to show code , this then does that and displays the code then give the option to visit the retailer.

un forced click to me is how shopcodes does it

[Frostie]

I have 2 sites that operate in two different ways. My "click here" site makes money, my open site is used by every other tom dick and harry to scrape from. Therefore I will always stick behind my decision to opt for the CLICK HERE version. It is NOT forcing clicks, it is allowing a visitor to browse the merchant while a discount code is still on view, therefore saving them having to make a mental note, or write it down. Is it any more forced that a cashback website?

But click here for more info tells a user they're going to another site (imo) as it's usually within some context.

IMO it tells me that I will be taken to another page within the website to find out more information. I wouldn't expect to be sent to a merchants site.

to think webmasters are trying to steal merchants sales be saying their have discount codes which they dont is total bull.

Except certain people, who advertise Merchants who have NEVER issued a discount code and NEVER will do. Thats not bull, it happens a lot and some networks turn a blind eye to it.

[Cheapdvds]

I have 2 sites that operate in two different ways. My "click here" site makes money, my open site is used by every other tom dick and harry to scrape from. Therefore I will always stick behind my decision to opt for the CLICK HERE version. It is NOT forcing clicks, it is allowing a visitor to browse the merchant while a discount code is still on view, therefore saving them having to make a mental note, or write it down. Is it any more forced that a cashback website?

IMO it tells me that I will be taken to another page within the website to find out more information. I wouldn't expect to be sent to a merchants site.

fair enough , but CLICK HERE could simply be just that and maybe what a customer is expecting , by clicking here it then reveals the discount code , thus hiding it from the scrapers.


"It is NOT forcing clicks, it is allowing a visitor to browse the merchant while a discount code is still on view, therefore saving them having to make a mental note"

a bit like an IFRAME then

[loquax]

IMO it tells me that I will be taken to another page within the website to find out more information

Depends on context...

John Lewis are offering a nice big cheese board for £5 - click here for more details - suggests to me you're going to probably go and look at cheese boards at John Lewis.

John Lewis has a £5 discount voucher - click here for more details - suggests that perhaps you might go to John Lewis or you may go to another page on the site you're looking at.

We have some new voucher codes - click here for more details - that suggests you're staying on the same site.



Jason

[Frostie]

a bit like an IFRAME then

Not in the context of what we are talking about. IFRAMES were used to load a merchant up in a 1x1 window therefore hiding the fact that you were visiting a merchant. So in this respect its not the same thing.

We have some new voucher codes - click here for more details - that suggests you're staying on the same site.

I agree that should keep you on the same site... but something like;

John Lewis has a £5 discount voucher - click here for more details
John Lewis has a cheese board - click here for more details

Either way, you are after more details of either an offer or a product for John Lewis so why should one be acceptable to send to a merchant, yet the other not?

[loquax]

Either way, you are after more details of either an offer or a product for John Lewis so why should one be acceptable to send to a merchant, yet the other not?

I think that's fine... it says you're off to the website, now whether it's ok to include a top frame as you run is up to a network to decide.

What I think is wrong in some cases is if on click 2 actions happen - i.e. a page with information appears, with the merchant's site essentially popping under/up.... but it all really needs network clarification.

Jason

[mainlime]

As far as I'm concerned if other people do the "click for code" business then so will I. Otherwise I'm just depriving myself of revenue. No point in being a penniless martyr.

[ian]

I have 2 sites that operate in two different ways. My "click here" site makes money, my open site is used by every other tom dick and harry to scrape from. Therefore I will always stick behind my decision to opt for the CLICK HERE version. It is NOT forcing clicks, it is allowing a visitor to browse the merchant while a discount code is still on view, therefore saving them having to make a mental note, or write it down. Is it any more forced that a cashback website?

How can you say that its not forcing clicks??? Someone turns up at your site to find a discount code, and if they want it they are 'forced' to have a new window popped up to see the code.

When we reach utopia and all voucher codes are protected and the copying has stopped, will voucher sites drop their 'click here' protection methods?

[Frostie]

How can you say that its not forcing clicks???

Whats the difference between clicking to be told more about an offer, or more about a product, both of which take you to the merchants website?

Neither are FORCED clicks because it's a voluntary action being carried out by the end user. They are making the decision to physically push the button on their mouse so there is no forcing whether it says DISCOUNT or MORE INFO.

Someone turns up at your site to find a discount code, and if they want it they are 'forced'

And if someone turns up to your website, wanting MORE INFORMATION then they are 'forced' or is this not classed as being forced? In theory then, ALL information should be included, and a simple button saying BUY NOW should be in place. How about if someone wants cashback? If they want cashback then again, are they being 'forced'? Sorry, I don't wish to be ignorant, but I really am struggling to see an argument or difference here TBH.

Forced click to me, like Jason says, is when someone does an action and the user is unwittingly taken to a merchant page via a pop-under or a hidden iframe. Also more importantly is clicks that promise to deliver something (such as discounts) but dont, as I mentioned before, especially when the merchant has NEVER in the past, and has no plans in the future, to offer a discount.

[D-Mac]

fair enough , but CLICK HERE could simply be just that and maybe what a customer is expecting , by clicking here it then reveals the discount code , thus hiding it from the scrapers.

I am yet to come across a discount site that is scraper proof. The safest way to do that is do place the discount code in a unique gif, but even that isn't scraper proof. None of the big sites are scraper proof, whether they're using JS pop-ups or framed content.

Frostie, I've just looked at your sites, and they are just as scrapable as each other, in fact I reckon it would be a lot quicker to write a scraper for your more successful sie. The 'click here' technique is fair enough, as at least it stops the user copy/pasting, but it won't stop the bots.

Just my 2p.

[Cheapdvds]

it is a forced click , you could have the code hidden and when clicked it simply unhides the code,
so that forced click is forcing the person to visit the retailer.
they may want a discount code to then visit a cashback site and buy that way so they get cashback and the discount (i assume this can be done) , but you are removing this almost by forcing them straight to the retailer in order to see the discount.

[Frostie]

it is a forced click

No its not. I have not forced the click on anyone - someone has made the decision to click themselves in order to obtain a discount.

but you are removing this almost by forcing them straight to the retailer in order to see the discount.

The same way content sites are 'forcing' people to click on a MORE INFORMATION button.

I am still waiting for someone to offer a rational explanation as to why they think option A is classed as forced, yet B isn't;
a) more information about a discount or special offer
b) more information about a product

Where one provides more information about a product (which is fully available without going via an affiliate link), one provides more information about a discount.

...but it won't stop the bots.

Agree totally. However when you are limited on skills, resources and time, its better to have something in place than nothing.