OMG why are you letting H. Samuels banner SEO affiliateS?

[lauriebred]

I wonder how long it will take before merchants realise that they need affiliates more than affiliates need them. Every time I get a heavy handed approach I just switch to another merchant, it's really easy.

[lauriebred]

Originally Posted by Top banana Just got this email Clearly H Samuels have asked for this but that is becuase they dont understand SEO or affiliate marketing. Therefore, i should OMG job not to allow such silly rules to implemented. I dont think OMG is good network, and no my opinion of them is getting worst.

Wow. How many mis-spellings and gramatical errors are there in that paragraph? I think they're an excellent network, but then I can spell "excellent".

[fizzbird]

Originally Posted by lauriebred I wonder how long it will take before merchants realise that they need affiliates more than affiliates need them.

Can't say I agree with that comment. The fact that they are trying to assert control over their natural search performance would rather contradict this.

[lauriebred]

Originally Posted by fizzbird Can't say I agree with that comment. The fact that they are trying to assert control over their natural search performance would rather contradict this.

I'm reminded of the battle over retail price maintenance many years ago when manufacturers fought against the supermarkets who were selling their products at below recommended retail price. That fight was lost and those same manufacturers are now falling over themselves to get those same supermarkets to cut their prices even lower.

I don't blame H Samuel for trying to stop their image from being degraded and no-body will respect a site thats full of glaring errors - hardly a recommendation to buy from it - but it is a fact of life that mis-spelling is rife and it could be argued that if affiliates don't do it someone else will, so provided that it isn't being carried out to a silly degree I don't see why any Mfr should get their knickers in a twist over it. Plus, as has already been pointed out, mis-spellings on anchor text of links pointed to our sites are very powerful and none of us can control them can we! In my humble-ish opinion, trying to stop the use of mis-spelled keywords by jumping on one's own affiliates is about as useful as trying to stop natural climatic change with 'carbon futures' .

[Qui Gon Jinn]

dear oh dear now seo affiliates get targeted, takes the focus of ppc for a while and perhaps there can be some appreciation of the rubbish affiliate's who do ppc have to endure.

Here are a few mispells for you to fill you boots with .. plenty more where they came from ... btw will affiliates get penalised for use or not use of a full stop as well as singular or plural? There are a few other silly restrictions around too which don't get mentioned but at the end of the day it tests the true substance of a network if they allow petty policies & how yellow bellied they are.

Also look at h samual - Google Search

Google has targeted them for embedded search, what a pitty (not)

Samuel
H amuel
H Smuel
H Sauel
H Samuels
H Samel
H Samul
H Samue
HH Samuel
H SSamuel
H Saamuel
H Sammuel
H Samuuel
H Samueel
H Samuell
HSamuel
H aSmuel
H Smauel
H Saumel
H Sameul
H Samule
HSamuel
H Sqmuel
H Swmuel
H Ssmuel
H Sxmuel
H Szmuel
H Sanuel
H Sajuel
H Sakuel
H Samyel
H Sam7el
H Sam8el
H Samiel
H Samkel
H Samjel
H Samhel
H Samuwl
H Samu3l
H Samu4l
H Samurl
H Samufl
H Samudl
H Samusl
H Samuek
H Samueo
H Samuep
H Sqamuel
H Saqmuel
H Swamuel
H Sawmuel
H Ssamuel
H Sasmuel
H Sxamuel
H Saxmuel
H Szamuel
H Sazmuel
H Sanmuel
H Samnuel
H Sajmuel
H Samjuel
H Sakmuel
H Samkuel
H Samyuel
H Samuyel
H Sam7uel
H Samu7el
H Sam8uel
H Samu8el
H Samiuel
H Samuiel
H Samkuel
H Samukel
H Samjuel
H Samujel
H Samhuel
H Samuhel
H Samuwel
H Samuewl
H Samu3el
H Samue3l
H Samu4el
H Samue4l
H Samurel
H Samuerl
H Samufel
H Samuefl
H Samudel
H Samuedl
H Samusel
H Samuesl
H Samuekl
H Samuelk
H Samueol
H Samuelo
H Samuepl
H Samuelp

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I have moved this thread from the OMG section to Mod Choice so that we can possibly engage in further discussion about SEO restrictions implemented by merchants.

a) Policies like these temporarily deflects attention from affiliates engaging as ppc (and synonymn matching issues) where some seo affiliates quite happily jump on their back .. so can they now see how unreasonable it can be!

b) If an affiliate can seo for mispells, why can't a ppc affiliate when there are ppc restrictions in place for paid search & mis-spellings. So what difference is there really between seo & ppc?

c) Is SEO not the domain or jurisdiction of the merchant?

d) An affiliate doesn't have to be signed up to program to SEO. So isn't it better the merchant & affiliate gets the sale rather than a competitor! Is it better in an affiliate pocket than a competitor pocket?

e) An affiliate can still SEO on mis-spells & send to sponsored listings! And often the EPC is better than going through CPA

f) Remember merchants DON'T own the search engines!

e) Merchants cannot police all websites whether these are affiliates on non-affiliates with mis-spellings or anything to do with meta tags. copy etc etc !

g) Since when has the ownership of an affiliates own website been the property of a merchant?

[Julia Stent]

Hi

I can understand this change by Signet being raised here on the forum, as from my experience at least merchants introducing SEO policy to their terms and conditions is a relatively new occurrence. However I think that as the dominance of paid search lessens and affiliates with expertise in natural listings become increasingly vital to the affiliate channel, this is a move merchants will consider.

Affiliate Window has talked through this concept at length with Signet prior to its implementation and are supporting them through this change to their terms and conditions. We had recognised that it might spark a debate, and would like to explain more about the reasoning behind Signet’s thinking.

Over the last nine months since the launch of H Samuel and Ernest Jones with Affiliate Window the role of the affiliate channel within Signet’s business has developed significantly. Continued proof of the valuable contribution that affiliates provide has led to much greater recognition internally, which in turn has led Signet to change from a fixed marketing budget to a variable budget with affiliates as a cost of sale. I hope that you will agree that this shows a much more progressive approach and a growing understanding of how to work with affiliates as trusted sales partners.

One of the important factors being taken into account during this change is the incremental value of sales driven by affiliates. Bidding on brand terms or misspells through paid search has never been permitted on either the H Samuel or Ernest Jones programme and the changes being introduced on July 1st will bring natural search inline with PPC. Both brands have an unusually large number of errors associated with their spelling, so it is important that Signet can protect traffic looking for their sites by taking this into consideration. It is generally felt that this kind of policy introduction for paid search is acceptable and while this is a different concept to apply when it comes to SEO, we would hope you can understand that the reasoning is similar.

Signet are very keen for affiliates to realise that their decision comes as part of the continued growth of their recognition of the importance of the affiliate channel. They wish to work more closely with their affiliate partners and this kind of move gives them the assurances they need to be able to do this. They would also like affiliates to know that they are very keen to work with you on increasing generic search term traffic. They would be happy to share information on the best ways to do this from their own data. If this would be of interest to you, please feel free to get in touch by contacting hsamuel@affiliatewindow.com or ernestjones@affiliatewindow.com.

We are available to talk through with you individually if you would like to discuss it further. Please feel free to give me a call on 020 7553 0355 or add me to MSN: jrstent@hotmail.com

Best wishes

Julia

[lauriebred]

Sure, we're all in favour of generic business. Problem is that a lot of sales that start off on generic sites end up being grabbed by brand bidders or even the merchants themselves when the clients come back to buy so it's a fact of life as we all know that branded keyphrases bring a better return. And we're all in it for the money in the end.

[Julia Stent]

In the context of a wider industry debate, I can understand that the overwriting of generic affiliate cookies is a big concern. I'm sure most of you are aware that Affiliate Window have introduced a technical solution to avoid cookies being overwritten by those of affiliates with permission to appear on brand, e.g. on Woolworths, and are rolling this out across a number of retailers.

How commissions are deduplicated against other channels is also something that should be monitored closely and as a network we always are careful to advise merchants on the effect deduplicating against their own paid search, or even natural listings and organic traffic, can have on their affiliates.

I want to point out that Signet do not deduplicate against other marketing channels. The only deduplication that takes place is between their affiliate networks, which is done on a last click basis. No affiliate has permission to appear on brand so this should not be an issue. Signet are also working with Affiliate Window on assessing the value of the contribution to the sales journey from each of their affiliates and to build an appropriate level of reward into their programme structure.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

A wider issue might be that those merchants which dedupe might do so against seo one day.

If the industry in some quarters prefer ppc brand bidding, where permissible & where there are BBGs, not to overwrite content affiliate cookies (which I agree), then by the same token though not easily implemented i guess, why shouldn't the same apply to sales from seo on brand? Basically imo there is not really much difference between seo & ppc, the former has to actually include the brand to appear organically & the latter can be achieved to appear without actually bidding on the brand, so why does / should ppc get isolated for targeting & not seo? i.e. why should seo be allowed for a brand but not ppc. Is seo taboo & ppc not?

You never know, it could all turn Interflora or John Lewis or Marks "&" Spencer, where merchant names have to be gifs or jpegs or javascript. Then you have merchants who say their name cannot be part of your directory structure or as a sub domain of your own site. ... Don't you just love affiliate marketing? If it's not one thing it's another.

If that is the case then, then search engines should list only one website when a user is searching for a brand or variation, but they don't, they are search engines by their very nature! & no affiliate, merchant, agency or network owns them.

[OMG Network]

Hi,

OMG appreciate your thoughts and feedback regarding the forthcoming changes to the SEO terms and conditions, to be implemented by H Samuel and Ernest Jones on 1st July 2008.

OMG have been advised by the Merchant that these changes are being put in place following a comprehensive internal review of their affiliate programs.

Signet is keen to ensure that they maintain a consistent approach with both their H Samuel and Ernest Jones affiliate programs. The amendments to SEO Ts & Cs will fall inline with their paid search policy, which does not allow affiliates to use their brand misspells. Whilst the use of brand misspells in URL’s, page titles, meta data and copy within the web pages will not be allowed Signet are looking to allow affiliates to use the following terms:

H.Samuel
H Samuel
HSamuel
Ernest Jones
ErnestJones

If you would like to discuss this issue in more detail, please don’t hesitate to contact your OMG account Manager.

Best wishes,

Louisa Muspratt | Senior Account Executive

[Barry]

Surely the natural serps will just fill up with their competitors and 'auto script' created 'background noise' sites or worse still complaint site maybe - who knows?

I also noticed that as its mostly 'voucher' sites that are doing so well in the serps for the brand they have decided to lower commission for voucher sites.

This isn't the first merchant to do this, I have been contacted by a few over the last few years asking me to change spelling mistakes in titles and pages because I have ranked higher than them for a miss-spell. Most of them have stated that its bad for their 'brand' .

I must add that most my spelling mistakes are completely natural!!!! (And over the years my spelling mistakes have made me a fair old wedge.)

Ta

Barry

[Keith]

This thread now owns most of the H Samuel mis-spells H Samukel - Google Search

[sticky]

these sort of things certainly get my back up - time to create some H Samuell & Earnest Jones misspells and direct them elsewhere me thinks. Was always crap at spelling at school anyway!

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I hear what you are saying sticky, but is something affiliates who do ppc have had to tolerate for a while.

Why Should You Be Able To SEO For A Brand When You Can’t Do PPC For A Brand? » Affiliate Marketing Blog

It's just that SEO seems to have been a general oversight, though i don''t agree with seo restrictions.