Should We Ignore Voucher Code Cookies?

[purple]

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I think I'm going to head for a beer now before I dig an even deeper hole for myself!

What have you started matt u cant leave us now!!

[mattg]

Every cookie gets a 30 minute window to make a sale before it can be overwritten .... sure, I'm cool with that, in both directions.

Voucher guys: why so defensive? :scared ?

[befuddle]

Hero - I'm glad you asked the question who defines the content. I could add an awful lot more codes to my site if I wasn't dealing with creatives or writing content on how you can use a code at each merchant's checkout. However I want to run a site that is not just a database of code + term + expiry.
In my eyes the popular site My Voucher Codes is a content site. It has codes and it has directories of business and has products. It has an awful lot more content than some blogs out there ever will.
--<br>Posted via my Mobile Device

[befuddle]

Mattg - voucher sites were singled out in the question. If they weren't I wouldn't have even responded once.
I make good money from running a code site but it is hard work and a 7 day week job. There are some plug and play code sites appearing and rss feed sites that make it appear simple but I'm not convinced about their longevity.
In the US I've spoken to code sites that employ 25 staff. To me this shows I need to push on with this viable business.
--<br>Posted via my Mobile Device

[renegade]

Like Ray we put a lot of effort into our site and it offers features over and above just listing codes. It's content, I create it and our visitors use it.
I bought the code site when I could see our static shopping directory was losing business to code sites and I reacted positively to stay in the game, do the same if you're worried.
Now, thanks to leeky and icodes, absolutely anyone can have their own free code site, updated automatically so if anyone thinks they're missing out or being turned over by code sites get your own site.
We've been debating codes since the last Expo and despite scaremongering, stirring the pot and T&C overdrive from a few merchants, agencies and networks users love them, merchants put the codes out so the only problem is people who keep saying there's a problem.
I keep reading the same old threads, the same old misconceptions, the same prejudices, the same waste of everyone's time.
I remain happy to work with any network, agency or merchant to promote special offers, exclusive codes, newsletter inclusion, free competitions and I've been doing that since 2000, codes are just one element in the affiliate marketing mix anyone needs to make a successful AM website in 2008.

[ian-d]

I had an instance just last week. Found a deal was about to be launched for a product, get the consumers on a waiting list, advised them when the time was right, encouraged them to take the offer, only to grab some of the commissions before someone kindly mentioned cashback through quidco and I pretty much lost the remaining commissions, despite doing all the hard graft.

Did it annoy me? Absolutely, cost me hundreds, if not thousands! Do I have a solution? Nope, no idea what the best course of action would be

[channel5]

I very much believe that last cookie wins is the big flaw in AM.

Why is the last site given the reward? I'm sure it was more due to the way the early networks were setup as its easier to make a network this way than to look at the entire journey.

Display advertising and TV, Radio etc all contributes to brand awreness and is the start of the journey.. it can't be tracked but would merchants stop using these methods? Of course not..

Move the journey onto the web, and the next part of the consumers journey is quite likely to be via a content affiliate..

Finally they may go via a voucher or Cashback site.

Why do we say the content affiliate should not be rewarded? I believe all touch points in a sale should be rewarded.

If a customer visits only a content affiliate then that affiliate should get 100% of the commission.

If a customer only visits a cashback/Voucher site then that site should get 100% of the commission.

If a customer visits a number of sites of whatever type then the commission should be split between the visited sites.

I dont see what the big issue is with this idea.. the incentive sites need to add value to the purchase decision to justify 100% of the commission.

[aotagain]

just like anything, merchants got caught up in the hype of voucher codes before they actually understood the impact on their bottom line.

Doesn't that hit the nail right on the head ?

There could be a huge amount of work, angst and time spent implementing something which, by the time its working, is redundant because the merchants that count decide they can't afford to consistently lose commission to affiliates, when they haven't got codes running ?

'Incremental sales' has been bandied around as a general reason for the existence of codes, but that isn't a reason for code sites themselves, just for existence of codes for promotional purposes aimed at specific products, offers, stock clearance etc.

So isn't a key question: Would the existing content affiliate sites have delivered that incremental sales volume anyway, without code sites ? and more importantly...

If the volume had come from content sites, would they have delivered it while preserving the merchants brand values and not presenting the merchant as a pound shop ?

er, and also... have code sites increased the overall sales through the affiliate channel ?

[Gavinio]

A key part of the recent affiliate survey for me was...

6. According to merchants, the most valuable affiliates – as a group - are SEO / content publishers, deemed to be driving a major contribution by 42%. This compares to 36% for paid search affiliates, 26% for loyalty / cashback sites, 20% for price comparison sites / aggregators, 17% for email affiliates and 10% for affinity sites

Now some people* took this to mean that this was a reflection of the volumes driven.
I took this very much to be a perception of how valuable merchants thought these types of site were in adding value to their programme.

Merchants (rightly, IMHO) perceive content affiliates to be the most value add affiliates - nothing** cheers me up more than to see an affiliate who has got off their own back and written a good review about a product which ranks in SERPS and gets sales. Merchants love it, these kind of things actively encourage customers to purchase the product in question; third party points of view and multiple natural search placements are something that the merchant can't really offer themselves, and hence where an affiliate programme is vital. If they wanted to offer cashback or discount vouchers, it's something they could offer on their own site if needs be via a reward progamme - who needs the affiliate?!

Now, merchants used to be able to control the voucher sites and their cookie spamming, sorry, setting by *not* offering voucher codes. If they didn't want to be on a voucher site, they didn't offer a code. However now with 'click to view' the cookie gets set regardless.

Ask yourself this, if you were a merchant - what type of affiliate would you like to encourage? What sort of affiliate would you like to see more of? How could you encourage these affiliates and dissuade affiliates that we'd like to see less of?

Now, as a member of the affiliate marketing industry, ask yourself will the best for the industry come about "by aligning ourselves with our merchants' goals?" or "by delivering the most tracked sales?"

As a consumer, do I use cashback and voucher sites? Yes. If I was an affiliate what would I currently be concentrating on? Cashback and vouchers. Having seen the top 20 affiliates for a *major* US affiliate programme, what's big in the USA? Yep, you guessed it. 15 out of 20 affs were one or the other.

I just think it's a shame that what agencies and networks sell into clients ("Yes, an affiliate programme will be all sorts of sites promoting your product, engaging people, widening your reach") sometimes turns out to be so far from the case. Ultimately we all want a long-term sustainable affiliate industry.

Something like Matt suggested could help this, as would multi-touch point tracking (Which everyone says is coming soon, no?).

*ducks*

*Just one example, I think, and a good, detailed post overall, Jess
**Alright, there are some things that cheer me up more, like beer, or puppies, but you get the picture

[Elaine]

I need 2 hats here

Affiliate Hat - it's simple - you can't beat 'em, so join 'em.

We're in the process of creating a new version and one of the major aims is to integrate voucher codes into every deep link - simply to stop savvy visitors leaving the site to search for them - something we're, undoubtedly, going to be seeing more of with the present climate.

But I'll be wary of offering large discounts, as I am with taking large commissions - it's the customer who ends up paying a higher price and most will simply look elsewhere for a better deal - it's a balancing act!

If you're going to 'punish' voucher code sites, then you have to do the same with cashback sites.

And trying to compensate everyone who is involved in the sale is sheer lunacy - we'll end up with thousands and thousands of tiny commissions, the logistics alone would be a nightmare.

Merchant's Hat - I just don't get it!
Our first priority has to be to the customer and to offer the best price we can and to compete in the market - which doesn't really leave us enough margin to offer affiliate commission + % off voucher code.

It has been suggested we offer a 'spend a certain amount and get a discount' - code - but it would be easier to simply automate this into our shopping basket.

We have changed the Promotional Code Box to 'Please ente your Shopper ID here (Optional) as we offer a discount to non-affiliate sites who drive traffic.

Although I don't have a problem with Code sites per se, it annoys the hell out of me that certain code sites use the forced cookie by having a 'click here for discount codes' - and it is something I fully intend to stop - I have spoken to POR about this, but haven't had the time to rewrite the Ts & Cs and give the offender! notice of removal from our programme.

[Mogga]

There also needs to be a balance of honesty and integrity and for sites that consistently abuse other sites unique codes and content are removed from the money making system.

[DavidCartlidge]

In my eyes the popular site My Voucher Codes is a content site.

Yeah - you got to love those in-depth merchant reviews...

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[Mitchy]

Now some people* took this to mean that this was a reflection of the volumes driven.
I took this very much to be a perception of how valuable merchants thought these types of site were in adding value to their programme.

Couldn't agree more Gav. The whole industry relies on merchants being committed to the channel. If merchants lose faith then it doesn't matter what type of affiliate you are - no programmes = no commissions = no affiliates. At the moment, not enough merchants truly understand how voucher code sites produce sales for it to be an issue. It's down to educating merchants....but who's responsible for this?
Voucher code sites definitely have their place in AM, but at the moment, some are over-exploiting their niche and eventually it will become damaging for everyone.

Something like Matt suggested could help this, as would multi-touch point tracking (Which everyone says is coming soon, no?).

I know of at least one merchant who has the capability to pay comms based on multi-touch tracking (percentage of commission set depending on where the affiliate contributed to the sales cycle) yet they don't...perhaps through fear of breaking the norm!

[Supercod]

I have spoken to POR about this, but haven't had the time to rewrite the Ts & Cs and give the offender! notice of removal from our programme.

Hi Elaine, as a Merchant you entitled to remove any Affiliate from your program for any reason, normally if they not broken any terms of your program it's polite to give a notice period but doesn’t have to be to long, couple of days to a week is sufficient. If they have broken a term of your program or the Network you can terminate them without notice.

As for rewriting Ts & Cs, fire me over a quick email and I will be happy to write in what you want to get across, that's not a problem. You can have any rules you like, it’s your program but I will be happy to give advice on how people may react to a rule but ultimately it’s your choice and I am happy to help.

This is people reading the post and not directed at Elaine

As for Affiliates 'click here for discount codes' as long as they have a code and not just setting a cookie for the sake of it, then technically at this point they are not breaking rules of most networks (ideally they will show the code on the page without any action needed on the part of the user with a link saying something like 'use this code now, click here' that would be fine), if they have no code they are and will be told to stop or if they been told many times, asked to leave the program / network.

One big problem right now is Affiliates are playing the game of monkey see, monkey do and it's understandable but really needs to stop. You either have a code or you don't, if you don't and you have a page live for the merchant (maybe your waiting for them to issue a new one, fine) you can't say click here for codes and not have a valid one, it’s a form of cookie stuffing and causes customers to be upset with Merchants when they can’t find what they are promised. I am not being unreasonable, if someone is a few days out of date in removing a code I am not going to give them a hard time but I will ask for it to be update asap, it’s kind of like an affiliate that is promoting a sale and the sale stops and they didn’t change the copy on the day, you have to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Brett]

I think someone else has already posted the obvious solution to this on page 1 or 2 of the thread - "stop click to reveal across the board"

Sites like Ray's and Joe's don't do it yet people still use them, click their links, and they make sales without forcing people to click the link.