Affiliate Association - Who should the membership consist off?

[Qui Gon Jinn]

If an affiliate association was formed...Who should the mermbership consist off?

Personally, I think this is a fundementally important question, to ascertain how a body acts & responds to issues within the industry or any recommendations made to the marketplace & any codes of conduct which are incorporated.

[Barry]

Ohh god, the fundamental question really - there is no point in having everybody in - I mean the whole point of a unioun is to 'stick together' to fight a common goal. If your going to get everybody involved in would be more of an 'blob' than a union - I can't think of anything more descriptive!

It would have to be affiliates only - giving us a platform and a way of representing our cause to networks and merchants alike.

I mean Networks and merchants could become 'affiliated' with our union - at a cost

We would have such a record of promotion and provide such a big opening to a massive revenue stream for their programs and networks they should be gagging to get their selfs in tip top condition and be wothy enough to become 'affiliated partners' or our unioun!

We affiliates ARE their business without us - networks have nothing and without networks merchants have to compete in the market without the expertece of a thousand affiliates.

I think its only fair that we should be fighting for the some of the same contractual rights that compaies have in the real world - no more changing the terms of a program overnight - no more to being shunted off with no compensation when a programs tracking goes down or a program goes bust 'youve done the work you should get paid!'

And it could be useful for merchant and networks as well, they would be able to present ideas and get a good gauge of how they will go down before they launch their ideas. It would work both ways - we as affliates know that the sudden change in commercial environment could make you as a program have to cut back on commissions in the short term sometimes - but we want to hear reasoning not just a circular email - as it shown that this often gets peoples heals in.


*edit*
just voted and seen the results - can somebody else give a little feedback lol
*/edit*

[Brains]

Affiliate Association.....that says it all


BRAINS

[Supercod]

Lets have a different Association for Networks, Affiliates and Merchants and waste loads of time fighting with each other as it's such a huge industry that everyone knows about and when you talk to your mates and family they all know what your on about cause it's so massive

LOL ok taking the pee a bit but really I see it not as a "man the barricades" type of deal but a way for people to get together for the common good for all, to set standards, and push Affiliate Marketing. I don't think all Merchants, Affiliates or Networks will be up to being part of it but I don't think we should have an Affiliates only to man the picket lines crap, what's the point. Affiliates are the ones who have the power already, you have the power of choice and can promote who you like, sure something’s stink but now more than 5 years ago you do have a choice to work with people that give a crap and avoid the only out for themselves brigade. The only way forward is to bring all groups together and help each side understand what the other is doing. I know from last month where a bunch of us went to an E-Consultancy things that it's clear Merchants for the most part (but not all) don't understand what Affiliates are, what they do and how to work with them. That can be changed but us via them won't change a thing.

[Barry]

OK so I see your point and you have used the right wording in that case.

It will be and affiliate 'association' and not an affiliate 'union'

Just the word 'union' would scare off to many network and merchants! And your right its not the reason it is being set up. (or is it?)

Ah, but maybe one day! I don't care I'm still a member of a union (the GMB) ever though I'm self employeed!

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I have laid here deliberating for a couple of weeks on this one single question.

Running through various hypothetical case studies & scenarios. And topics which have taken place over the past couple of years on this forum, together with those ones that keep cropping up time after time.

Also what would in my honest opinion, that is...only my personal opinion, would provide the necessary catalyst to move the industry forward most effectively and efficiently.

I am not looking for any division between merchant, network, agent or affiliate....quite the contrary. However, I have sat on numerous roundtable meetings with networks & merchants, spent many hours on the phone, given too many reminders to mention for over 4 years...all purely from a selfless (not selfish) perspective, and all too often changes are not implemented or at the rate that is required. Until recently I decided, no more to what is effectivley free consultancy, especially if we don't see the necessary changes rectified. All too often I have had false assurances & promises.

These discussions mentioned are basically what I fear would be repeated if an association was a mould / formation of the three parties (affiliates, merchants & networks). These kinds of meetings already take place for at least 3 years.

Some parties "hear, but don't listen" is a phrase which immediately springs to mind & is incredibly frustrating. Basically some of the larger concerns generally don't have the resources, time or more importantly the flexibility to adjust or implement affiliate demands quickly & effectively..if at all..within the industry.

Initially, I immediately thought the all parties...should be members of an affiliate association.

But, if we look deep into the topics we discuss on the forum, how often are our cries ignored, some networks & many merchants don't even comment on the forum. One network has quoted to me on several occasions in person, that because they are a plc company they can't respond on a forum...

What total poppycock !!

So what makes me think they would be anymore committed to an Affiliate Association, absolutely none!

The worry is that an Affiliate Association will be just a way of keeping important / pressing matters tied up in bureaucracy & supressed...going around & around in circles & become a toothless divisory (internally divided) body.

However, I don't think affiliates will ever be truly be taken seriously unless they can actually stand up for themselves...or a organisation that solely represents them. These are the guys & girls who are truly at the forefront of affiliate marketing, those who can help regulate, standardise 7 shape the industry as well as effectively pushing for the much needed changes.

How can a collective decision or mandate be made on behalf of affiliates if merchants & networks are members? Otherwise how can affiliates only as collective privately discuss matters pertaining to an individual merchant or network with all the other parties being privvy or what if affiliates as a collective wanted to make statements to the media etc etc etc....

Of course the door is always open for networks & merchants...which is has to be....Perhaps at some stage the affiliate asociation can issue some kind of kite mark for recommended & trusted merchants & networks.

Now with a few network's employees, merchant affiliate managers & agency representives who also subsidise their income as an affiliate..their input from their experiences in their day vocation would too be beneficial for any Association and hopefully can be encouraged to be members.

Basically I vote for an Affiliate Association just for Affiliates, I want an Affiliate Association to be a professional, responsible & representaive body which isn't a lip service or a numpty that blows hot air, but something with actual teeth & balls by being a recognised body which is the catalyst for moving the industry forward.

[drivetowin]

This point has been argued out before on this forum a few times - but is still a valid question.

I have listened carefully to the arguments for an affiliate association purely for affiliates from a number of affiliates but to my mind an affiliate association solely for affiliates would be nowhere near as effective as an association embracing the whole affiliate industry for a number of reasons:

1. If the association is to create codes of conduct for affiliates, merchants and networks, all parties must have input to the creation of those codes of conduct otherwise why should they abide by them. As an example, an affiliate association made up purely of affiliates may set commercial terms which would be unacceptable to any merchant, or call upon the networks to implement something which is either technically or financially totally unfeasible to achieve. With an association comprising of everyone, if 90% of merchants say yes to a particular code of conduct at the creation stage and adopt it, it is for the other 10% to put up or shut up.

2. Arbitration - it is important that the association is able to arbitrate in disputes between all parties. This can only be done if there are members from all parties with sufficient experience to pass judgement. Again, if all are members then there is an obligation to accept arbitration - if its for affiliates only why should a merchant or network accept the arbitration process, and what about disputes between merchants and networks or are we saying we dont care about them.

3. Training and Education - one of the key elements of the associations reason for being is to establish training for newbie affiliates, affiliate managers, and anyone else who needs/wants it. Again, training of affiliate managers (or at least the creation of training material) is best done by other widely respected affiliate managers - yes an affiliate association could probably do all of the affiliate facing bits, but what about all of the management facing bits - would you know how to convince the board of a plc to give you more budget, do you know the best way to get creative agencies to produce creative on time and within budget - I sure as hell know that I dont.

4. Part of the associations aim is to eliminate bad practice whichever part of the industry it is in, and yes that may mean exposing some bad affiliates and helping networks/merchants with the detection of fraudulent affiliates - would an association made up solely of affiliates be as willing to do this.

5. Outbound promotion of affiliate marketing. The association should seek to drive the whole image of affiliate marketing forward, both to industry, the media and the consumer. There is a lot of work to do on all fronts. Many merchants simply do not understand how affiliate marketing should/does work - which brings us back to education. The media (both mainstream and specialist) barely acknowledge that affiliate marketing exists - yet when it is contributing 30%+ of online revenue for a good number of merchants should not any article on e-commerce at least mention affiliate marketing too. And for the consumer its about building trust all of the way from the affiliate site (or ppc ad) through the network to the merchant site. There is still a lot of mistrust about buying online - it is for the whole industry to work to educate the public about that (and especially that not all cookies are bad and that spyware detection software does not get it right 100% of the time) - a more trusting public will buy more product, and make us all more money.

6. I dont see why the presence of a merchant or a network in the association prevents discussion of issues concerning them or the issuing of a press release condemning what they have done. I have always adopted the view (though I know some prefer to hide behind the anonymity the forum gives them) that I do not write one word here I would not be prepared (and often have) said to the merchant or network face to face. In the recent ASOS debacle I would have openly welcomed the opportunity for a face to face discussion with Nick and Gavin, and my opinions would have been no less forthright than I have put forward on the forum. If the majority of the association felt that what a merchant / network or affiliate had done was unethical, the association would have the balls as you put it to speak out publically about what had happened - no one member will have the right to gag the association from speaking out.

For all of the above reasons, the affiliate association currently in formation will have membership open to affiliates, networks, merchants, affiliate marketing agencies/consultancies and anyone who can demonstrate a genuine commitment to driving affiliate marketing forward.

But dont worry, it certainly wont be toothless, and it is not going to just be a talking shop or somewhere decisions take forever to be made. Please wait until the full framework is issued in about a months time before you make judgement.

The framework will give everyone the opportunity to comment.

Someone said in another thread "united we stand, divided we fall" - a true sentiment, but united has to include everyone.

Finally, while having put all of the time, effort and money into its foundation I intend to lead the association for the first 12 months following its formation, after that I will put the leadership up for open election - if you dont like the job I and the association are doing by then feel free to vote me out and replace me with someone else.

[Elaine]

I always thought that an Affiliates Association should be just that - an association of affiliates.

Its aims purely to establish a professional body which would assure affiliates (future members) networks and ALL merchants that we had agreed to abide by a broad code of conduct - by which I mean that not all affiliates would agree that some practices are wrong - but there will be areas where we would all agree.

If an affiliate was found to be disregarding this code - they would be removed from the association.

I am sure that many many merchants are wary of committing to an affiliates scheme simply because they worry they will become 'party' to spammers or have problems with securing their kewords etc.

Plus joining some networks can be very expensive - this initial contact could be offputting - how much easier if they could approach one professional body who would give impartial information.

And although you might get the majority of 'proven' affiliates and nearly all the networks joining - I can't believe for one minute that you'd get many of the larger merchants and the multi nationals joining and agreeing to a code of conduct - and for argument's sake what if they did - who's going to 'police' all this and how is it going to be paid for - especially when you throw 'training and education' into the pot. Setting up arbitration in itself would be time consuming and expensive.

An Affiliates Association could not impose conditions or codes of conducts on networks or merchants - but we could jolly well 'suggest' to our members that a certain 'network' or 'merchant' was out of order and recommend moving links to a competitor.

I'm sure the whole ASOS debacle could have been handled much better if their had been one point of contact where the issues could have been 'thrashed' out first ...

and to take this scenario further would ASOS - if they had joined the Association (which is very most likely when Jess was there) be then thrown out because they had seriously 'annoyed' some top affiliates and would that stop other affiliates from promoting them - NO.


And although I have the greatest respect for Keith I don't think I could be persuaded that his version of an Affiliates Association would work.

[drivetowin]

Elaine

I have great respect for you (and QGJ) too and this may be one area where we simply have to agree to disagree.

I guess only the fullness of time will see whether the model I have proposed will work - all I can say is that I havent plucked it out of the air - its been the result of hours of discussion with other ecommerce trade organisations, the networks, and major merchants - to see what they would be prepared to join and respect (and abide by) the codes of conduct on. You would be surprised how many high street name merchants (and major online vendors) have already expressed an interest in joining, and accepting that there would be terms they would have to abide by.

The widespread feedback from the networks and merchants is that they would only be interested in supporting, backing and recognising an association which represented the whole industry - it is time we all put the 'them and us' philosophy behind us - its not about them and us, its about the industry as a whole.

And yes, it is going to cost money - clearly as in all things a lot will depend on how popular it is and so it is not currently possible to give a precise idea of membership fees but at the same time by having networks and merchants involved it helps to spread the financial burden across the industry - having an association purely of affiliates would not necessarily make it any cheaper to run. Suffice to say that I am anxious that membership fees should not be a barrier to entry to any affiliate - I have heard on the grapevine rumours that the fee for affiliates will be zero or that it will be over £500 a year - while I cant set a definite figure yet it wont be free but it wont be anywhere approaching £500 a year either.

I think while we may disagree we are actually closer than you think in our outlook - surely my model would also achieve your aims of merchants having a single point of contact?

You are right when you say that an affiliate association as I've proposed it could no