Changes to Terms & Conditions

[Fraser]

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Anyone read this stuff yet?

http://www.amwso.com/affiliate_blog/...-agreement.php

[Mogga]

You must conspicuously post Your privacy policy on Your Web site and otherwise make it available to all Visitors. Your privacy policy must comply with all laws and regulations regarding the privacy of Visitor information, be commercially reasonable, and fully and accurately disclose Your collection and use of Visitor information. You must fully and accurately disclose Your use of third party technology, including CJ's tracking technology, use of cookies and options for discontinuing use of such cookies.


So not only do CJ deny any liability if tracking breaks but we also have to tell visitors how they can switch off cookies altogether?


Also chargebacks can come at any time?
That is unworkable. How do you account for that in your accounts? How long before you count the money as yours? A year? Two? Never?

[Fraser]

So not only do CJ deny any liability if tracking breaks

Yes this is the thing that most surprised me. Not that I remember CJ having a specific policy on this before but I know the networks that I can trust to pay out for downtime and that's where I would be focussing my efforts.

[Mogga]

Ability to charge back years after event is such an horrific idea...

There is a useful list on a site about the amendments but I'm on the wrong machine to have the URL in my history at the moment.

[Fraser]

Yes the summary of changes is here

http://www.jangro.com/cj-psa-changes.htm

[Qui Gon Jinn]

This post warrants being held sticky for a while to address the aforementioned concerns, whereby a Q&A response would be needed by Commission Junction to respond the questions posed by the forum.

[jforster]

Hi All

Qui Gon Jinn raises a good point. We’re available to discuss the new PSA with anyone on an individual basis. We are also aiming to provide further questions and answers through emails to all our affiliates very soon. It’s not going to feasible to get into all of this the detail on the forum, but if you guys want to list out your questions to us directly and through the forum, we can make sure they get tackled head on.

Our ultimate aim with this process is to make it as transparent and easy to manage as possible, so please get in touch with us on your questions and feedback.

As per our posting re the VAT changes

---

If you have any questions or queries that you would like to run through with us in relation to our recent announcement on VAT and the amendments to the ASA and PSA, please get in contact either through the Ask A Question interface or directly with either Michael Brandy, our Publisher Development Representative, or any member of the team.

If you would like a copy of either the PSA or ASA we will be happy to send this though, along with an FAQ document explaining the changes.

Michael's Details

Michael Brandy
Publisher Development Representative
Email: mbrandy@cj.com
Direct Line: 0208 785 5838
CJ Main No: 0208 785 5870
---

Thanks

Jonathan Forster
Country Manager, UK & Ireland
Commission Junction
A ValueClick Company
www.cj.com
jforster@cj.com
Direct Line: 0208 785 5818

[Matthew Wood]

ok privacy agreements thats fair game in my opinion but:

(b) Charge-backs. An Advertiser may apply, or CJ may apply, a debit to Your Account in an amount equal to a Payout previously credited to Your Account in circumstances of : (i) product returns; (ii) duplicate entry or other clear error; (iii) non-bona fide Transactions; (iv) non-receipt of payment from, or refund of payment to, the Visitor by the Advertiser; or (v) Publisher failure to comply with Advertiser's Program terms or other agreement with Advertiser ("Charge-back"). Charge-backs may be applied to Your Account at any time, including previous payment cycles.

"That reads to me that Merchants can reverse orders going back any length of time"

OH MY - WHAT THE!

Why oh Why?

I'm sorry but the role of an affiliate network is to 'protect' and 'add value' to the affiliate s business activity - after all they simply (in a basic sense) facilitate the tracking and payment don't they? This is a kick in the teeth - big time - makes the use of many catalogue sites unworkable for reward / cashback sites, and most PPC activity.

If merchants can't get their act together to reverse sales within a decent timeframe!!... then &*&^%D%F!

Its good that the new 'PSA' is shorter but i'm not sure whats 'good' for affiliates here.

old chargeback conditions:

3.5 Charge-backs. An Advertiser may request that CJ, or CJ may on its own initiative, debit Your Account with an amount equal to a Payout previously credited to Your Account in circumstances of : product returns; duplicate entry or other clear error; non-bona fide Transaction where there is no Publisher failure to comply with the this Agreement; non-receipt of payment from, or refund of payment to, the Visitor by the Advertiser; or Publisher failure to comply with the terms of an Offer or Advertiser Click-through Agreement ("Charge-back"). Charge-backs requested by an Advertiser in accordance with the preceding sentence may be applied up to and including the 60th day after the end of the month in which the Payout was earned ("Charge-back Period"). CJ may apply at any time Charge-backs for all Transactions from Publisher's Web site(s) and/or subscription emails for Publisher's or its Sub-Publisher's failure to comply with this Agreement. An Advertiser may request that a Payout be postponed 1 payment cycle where Advertiser is verifying a Lead (for Lead Campaigns) or the Advertiser has a product return policy or offer to the Visitor that allows the Visitor to return the product during the Charge-back Period.

[Dynamoo]

Hmmm, well there's a lot going on, especially with regards to the privacy policy (yes, I do have one and nobody reads it). But merchants being able to charge back indefinitely is just plain stupid.. the typical MO of a fly-by-night merchant is to suddenly reverse all transactions and then pull out of the programme or go bust.

I will tell you this - if my account at CJ ever goes negative because of this new chargeback policy then I'll close it there and then and CJ can just suck up the negative balance.

[Fraser]

It’s not going to feasible to get into all of this the detail on the forum

To be honest I'm not sure why not? It seems the best place for it. Better to explain it to everyone at once than to everyone individually.

Looking at a few extracts from http://www.jangro.com/cj-psa-changes.htm

This paragraph appears to be new, granting CJ rights to use Publishers' trademarks, service marks and copyrighted material provided to CJ through the publisher account. They can use this to promote that a publisher is active in their network.

Is this accurate?

3.5 Charge-backs This section has changed from being limited to a "chargeback period of 60 days" to being possible for chargebacks to be applied on any previous payment.

Is this accurate?

[christh]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear. More excuses to scale back my already wafer thin advertising on CJ.

Unlimited chargebacks, whatever next. Hurry up Mal and the buy.at team, sort out these jokers!

[aromanelli]

Let me get this straight - affiliates of CJ can have $$ taken away from their account at any time no matter how long ago the transaction took place?

[jforster]

As a follow up to my posting a few days ago, I wanted to give further clarification on the points with regard to chargebacks that seems to be causing the most concern. Although the language may have changed slightly, CJ does not plan on enforcing the chargeback provision any differently than before.

As per the previous PSA that we had in place, the agreement we have with advertisers (ASA) only allows for reversals for the reasons given.

The only time that an advertiser would be allowed to chargeback outside of this standard period would be in the case of a publisher failing to comply with the PSA – at which point reversals could be made on prior sales.

I understand the concerns about the notion that we would allow advertisers to chargeback historical transactions without the necessary controls in place, and can confirm categorically that this is not a change that we’re making – we’ve tried to simplify the language of the agreement and I’ve passed back this concern to our legal team – read in conjunction with the relevant section of the ASA this issue should not be material.

As i said previously we'll continue to field support calls and produce a full FAQ early next week for the key questions we're being asked.

Have a good weekend

Jonathan Forster
Country Manager, UK & Ireland
Commission Junction, A ValueClick Company

[Mogga]

As a follow up to my posting a few days ago, I wanted to give further clarification on the points with regard to chargebacks that seems to be causing the most concern. Although the language may have changed slightly, CJ does not plan on enforcing the chargeback provision any differently than before.

As per the previous PSA that we had in place, the agreement we have with advertisers (ASA) only allows for reversals for the reasons given.

The only time that an advertiser would be allowed to chargeback outside of this standard period would be in the case of a publisher failing to comply with the PSA – at which point reversals could be made on prior sales.

I understand the concerns about the notion that we would allow advertisers to chargeback historical transactions without the necessary controls in place, and can confirm categorically that this is not a change that we’re making – we’ve tried to simplify the language of the agreement and I’ve passed back this concern to our legal team – read in conjunction with the relevant section of the ASA this issue should not be material.

I think the campaign for plain english would suggest having it say what you mean rather than something which is open to such wide amounts of specualtion.

I hope it can be amended to be made clearer.

[harris1]

What happens when the vat man ask why CJ income has been classed as exempt for the last 3 years and they are now paying vat ?

Thats going to be a difficult conversation. Thats would be a pretty big vat clawback for many people.