Paid on completion - just a thought

[speedtouch]

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What are peoples opinions on paid on completion for say bridging loans, secured and mortgages (with intro agreement)?

I understand the potential trust issues, but selling 5 secured loan leads for say £250 is ok, but why not sell for £125 and go for something on the back end as well and develop a trusting long term working relationship directly with the broker/s? It would be more lucrative.

I would rather work directly with an affiliate to improve quality and work together on quantity. I suspect there are others that feel the same. People on this forum are expert marketers, so why not develop direct relationships? I suspect brokers would contribute to your marketing costs rather than trying to compete.

There are many finance companies that are priced out of the PPC market yet they would fall over themselves to work with people like you. Such completion deals and bonuses could easily be offered if you are saving the finance company on there own marketing costs and time etc. I could go on

Anyway, just thought I'd put this out there and see what peoples thoughts are.

[freetimer]

thats what i do .. i very rarely use networks.. better deals direct from brokers etc

im interested in virtually all partnerships as long as its beneficial

[russell cpanuk]

Any affiliates that would like to work this way please get in touch. I can get you a nominal amount per lead up front, then half the broker commission earned from the lender.

Secured Loan/Mortgage companies are beating our door down for this type of deal, paying a fixed return has always been more profitable for affiliates, but times are changing.

If there is enough response to this post, I will have the deal set up; with all the creative you need, within a week.

[freetimer]

put me down russ

[russell cpanuk]

Not meaning to put anyone down freetimer (sorry) , but the question was asked.

There is always a reason why brokers would prefer this type of deal, main one being that they are not exposed to the marketing costs. (You the affiliate take all the marketing risk)

Another is that the broker may not prioritise free leads as much as they do paid for leads. (Meaning they will hit their own marketed leads first, as it has cost them money)

Another is keeping track of the lead, secured/mortgage applications can take months to complete. They pass through many hands from sales, to underwriters then to packagers. (Over time the leads could easily change media codes)

Another is cash flow and trust, affiliates cash flow will be seriously affected, and you also have to trust the merchant to pay the correct money on time. (If the broker is dealing with hundreds of affiliates direct, then he will need to employ an affiliate manager, or go through a network and save that cost)

Another is the completion rate, example using £50 pay per lead average from speedtouch, 100 leads would earn him @£50 average +£5,000.

A good broker who hits the leads straight away with a good sales team should get 10% competed. Average loan value on the 10 leads maybe £10,000 so that’s £100,000.

The affiliate would need to get at least 5% of the loan value, even to match the pay per lead deal. At £20,000 he doubles his pay per lead price!!

Two problems here, first being getting a broker to agree on 5 %( as he will get about that from the lender), second being the average loan value.

If you can supply high value secured loan leads, that convert at 10% you may just make this type of deal work with a good trustworthy broker.

[freetimer]

its a thought but the way me and my broker work is that he like all brokers charge a fee thats normally added onto the loan / mortgage

Mine charges 1% which on a £180'000 mortgage is £1800

i'd get 60% of that which is better than a kick in teh nuts

if i can get more though id happily do it

[russell cpanuk]

The above post was referring to secured loan leads, not mortgages. Mortgages are a completely different cup of tea and represent a very small part of the market.

Using your £180,000 remo figure.

Out of 100 leads supplied, the percentage that complete is low, the reason for this is that many adverse mortgage applications, already have an adverse mortgage lender or second charge/secured loan and the broker has to supply a lower monthly repayment, this is a tall task, when fees are added to the loan..

They cost more than secured loan leads to generate, and convert at “from memory” at 5%. Most adverse mortgage leads are generated from secured loans applications, from the broker’s sales departments.

Working on a percentage of the fee. 5 deals at 1% of the £180,000 = £9,000, broker split with you @ 60% = £5,400. Then you can also get a percentage of the commission. This will average out, at £300, so that’s £6,900 in total.

Pay per lead, supply 100 applications at an average of £80 per lead = £8,000, the broker may also pay you a bonus if the loan completes like our Crystal Clear campaign of £125 per deal. So add £625 to the £8,000 = £8,625.

Again affiliates need to supply high value mortgage application, to even match a pay per lead.

[speedtouch]

Hi Russ, as a finance company it is a way we prefer to work so that we can help the affiliate develop the lead quality etc on the understanding the more we earn, the more the affiliate earns.

freetimer, there are companies that would fall over themselves for an affiliate like you.

The only problem I see with affiliate networks is the 20-30% over ride. i understand the need, but the direct route for affiliates is the most lucrative.

[russell cpanuk]

Can I ask how you would help the affiliate develop the lead quality etc, so you can both earn more?

Offer web site design, PPC advice, white label sites, coding for application forms, produce banners, I frames, affiliate support team, tech support team?

[freetimer]

if the loan completes like our Crystal Clear campaign of £125 per deal. So add £625 to the £8,000 = £8,625.
Again affiliates need to supply high value mortgage application, to even match a pay per lead.

Affilikate sneed to supply a heck of a lot of leads to get 1 validated too

i promoted crystal when they were else where and spent over £300 on PPC ..
total revenue .. less than £200 !

Tried with another network and did ok .. but not too keen on crystal

Enable finance are 1 of the best ive promoted

Not meaning to dog crystal and probably just my experience


But always looking for a good partner regardless of the finance type

Regards
Chris

[freetimer]

freetimer, there are companies that would fall over themselves for an affiliate like you.

If you know any send them in my direction

Chris

[RailyPhill]

Hi

This is a really good thread and a topic very close to my heart… I think the business issue is for the affiliate and merchant to build the relationship, working together is by far the best way for both parties to be profitable. This is very much old school business principles where two parties have different skill sets that together earn money.

It’s a business relationship we run with the right kind of affiliate with all the right kind of support, online case tracking, I-frames etc.

I’ve got to say that this type of scheme really only suites the professional affiliate, we’ve had people want to join our partner program that don’t really know what they’re doing this is definitely not for them.

It’s all about business people working together with direct lines of communication.

I’m certainly always free to talk to new and existing affiliates.

[freetimer]

Philip .. hows your inhouse affiliate program coming along ?

sent you an email a few weeks ago .. cant wait to work with you guys again :0

Chris Yates

[co-co nut]

Freetimer & All.

We are a broker who has good experience, & levels of success, on our Secured Loan conversions. We have pay on completion deals in place which are very attractive. In addition to this we record all leads received & provide regular & accurate MI on the Good, the bad & the ugly! So you know exactly what is happening with the leads referred.

In these times of lenders squeezing commision levels & some lenders removing themselves from the 2nd charge market - It will be increasingly important for lead generators to "buddy up" with quality brokers who can offer service & good commissions.

Anyone interested in striking a "pay on completion" deal with ourselves - please drop me a PM. I would be more than happy to talk in more depth.

[freetimer]

POC .. whats your turnaround time ?

posted here because no doubt others will ask