Remortgage leads - honest assesment

**barrycast** · 21-04-08

I have acted as a broker on secured / remortages for a few years.

This might be a naive post but as the industry is going through a fundamental change and a lot , if not all the silly lending is disappearing I thought I would ask opinions on this.

I have never bought in leads - at £30/£40 a throw - there is to my mind too much inaccurate info and the risk lies with the broker rather than the lead supplier - I have yet to meet a broker who having used this type of service, would stick with it exclusively.

Instead I buy raw data from a well known list provider (whose info is shocking I have to say) - and let the telesales girls loose on it - not perfect but they do a lifestyle questionnaire that throws up enough debt consolidation and remortage potential to be worthwhile -

Cost are as follows - telesales @£6per hour - 9 hours per week X three people
= £162. plus cost of data £50 per 500 records - plus telephone bill office etc £70

So for £1000 /£ 1200 per month I have more than enough business and complete control of people and the quality of the info - generates about 250 /300 potential of which because I am fussy I will only pursue those with loans/cards/need to raise money - so about 10% are any use to me.

Alternatively I could buy 25 leads @ £40 and hope for the best. I think that only two models are sustainable either the lead provider reduces costs down to £3/£4 per record - with no guarantees or we move towards a model that means the lead provider only gets paid on completion - big delay but payout of £2/300 would make it worthwhile.

I await your fire boys and girls maybe this is already happening and I am not aware of it - just trying to educate myself about this - if there was a way of reducing overhead and the need to manage people I would be very interested.

**mike_ec** · 21-04-08

Originally Posted by barrycast

I have acted as a broker on secured / remortages for a few years.

This might be a naive post but as the industry is going through a fundamental change and a lot , if not all the silly lending is disappearing I thought I would ask opinions on this.

I have never bought in leads - at £30/£40 a throw - there is to my mind too much inaccurate info and the risk lies with the broker rather than the lead supplier - I have yet to meet a broker who having used this type of service, would stick with it exclusively.

Instead I buy raw data from a well known list provider (whose info is shocking I have to say) - and let the telesales girls loose on it - not perfect but they do a lifestyle questionnaire that throws up enough debt consolidation and remortage potential to be worthwhile -

Cost are as follows - telesales @£6per hour - 9 hours per week X three people
= £162. plus cost of data £50 per 500 records - plus telephone bill office etc £70

So for £1000 /£ 1200 per month I have more than enough business and complete control of people and the quality of the info - generates about 250 /300 potential of which because I am fussy I will only pursue those with loans/cards/need to raise money - so about 10% are any use to me.

Alternatively I could buy 25 leads @ £40 and hope for the best. I think that only two models are sustainable either the lead provider reduces costs down to £3/£4 per record - with no guarantees or we move towards a model that means the lead provider only gets paid on completion - big delay but payout of £2/300 would make it worthwhile.

I await your fire boys and girls maybe this is already happening and I am not aware of it - just trying to educate myself about this - if there was a way of reducing overhead and the need to manage people I would be very interested.

Hello,

We are a callcentre based in India and are interested to work upon the module where you can have agents generating leads for you at 6 GBP/hour.Moreover we will bare the cost of telecommunication as well.

Let me know your thoughts.

You can revert at mike@ecallservices.com

Regards,
Mike
mike@ecallservices.com

**Alchemy** · 21-04-08

Barrycast,

I have sent you an email in regards to your thread that you may find of some interest. Please send me an email if I can be of any assistance.

Kind regards,

Alchemy.

**bioalien** · 21-04-08

Originally Posted by barrycast

either the lead provider reduces costs down to £3/£4 per record.

This will never happen because it costs the PPC lead generators roughly that much per click and not every click generates a lead.

My only advice is to source various lead generators, there are some excellent people in the industry. Ask for their typical conversion rates, because if you're working on a 10% conversion rate then you've got yourself at least 2 conversions from your example of 24 leads at £40 per lead. I presume this would still put you in a positive ROI? Only without the headache of managing a whole operation of employees, call centres, massive phone bill etc.

**Virensingh** · 22-04-08

hi barry,
i am into uk finance market from the last over 2 years and i understand the market.so,taking care in mind that a lead provider is earning as long as buyer is making some profits out of the leads supplied by the lead provider,i"ll be happy to work on either models mentioned above with the motive to work lifetime together.
please get in touch if this is of some interest to you at j-kapoor@hotmail.com or jatin.kapoor@glance2007.com

regards
jatin

**simonb** · 22-04-08

Originally Posted by barrycast

I have acted as a broker on secured / remortages for a few years.

This might be a naive post but as the industry is going through a fundamental change and a lot , if not all the silly lending is disappearing I thought I would ask opinions on this.

I have never bought in leads - at £30/£40 a throw - there is to my mind too much inaccurate info and the risk lies with the broker rather than the lead supplier - I have yet to meet a broker who having used this type of service, would stick with it exclusively.

Instead I buy raw data from a well known list provider (whose info is shocking I have to say) - and let the telesales girls loose on it - not perfect but they do a lifestyle questionnaire that throws up enough debt consolidation and remortage potential to be worthwhile -

Cost are as follows - telesales @£6per hour - 9 hours per week X three people
= £162. plus cost of data £50 per 500 records - plus telephone bill office etc £70

So for £1000 /£ 1200 per month I have more than enough business and complete control of people and the quality of the info - generates about 250 /300 potential of which because I am fussy I will only pursue those with loans/cards/need to raise money - so about 10% are any use to me.

Alternatively I could buy 25 leads @ £40 and hope for the best. I think that only two models are sustainable either the lead provider reduces costs down to £3/£4 per record - with no guarantees or we move towards a model that means the lead provider only gets paid on completion - big delay but payout of £2/300 would make it worthwhile.

I await your fire boys and girls maybe this is already happening and I am not aware of it - just trying to educate myself about this - if there was a way of reducing overhead and the need to manage people I would be very interested.

A few things to point out here. When buying leads the broker is taking a risk on the quality of the leads but from the other point of view an affiliate will have spent money generating the leads so should not have to open themselves up to the risk of a broker being poor at his job and not converting the leads. Risk lies with both parties and payment per lead seems the fairest method for rewarding each party.

There are many mortgage brokerages that have been built up exclusively using lead gen companies such as Leadbay and we sell over 1500 leads a day. If brokers weren't making money from these leads then we wouldn't be selling them.

I am concerned with your statement regarding letting your telesales girls loose on data lists as I'm sure you are aware cold calling for mortgage advice is not allowed in the UK. If you are using the lifestyle questionnairre route then they should be sticking strictly to a script that has been signed off as compliant by a compliance expert.

Setting your own telesales operation up in house may be suitable for small operations but I doubt it can be quickly and easily scaled up to meet your business demands and certainly would be difficult to scale down quickly. Compared to buying leads I think unless you can see a significant financial saving on telesales then the flexibility of lead purchasing give a much better business model.

... all that being said I am a bit biased ...

**dean1st** · 22-04-08

Hi Barry,

I work for a lead gen company, the probelms is at the end of the day you have a choice, either pruchase leads at (depending on what ones) £50-70 per a pre-qualified lead to your criteria or pay next to nothing for a high batrch of data that can have joe bloggs and wrong numbers in.

As well as the fact that indian call centres are out there and think their brilliant (they're not!!!!!!!)

We pass over leads to companies that set out a specific criteria for their leads mort/remo/iva/debt man/loans etc and we charge clients a high price but we also have a very comprehensive refund policy. Watch who you go for some will promise you the earth and give you a bean.

Be careful

Reagrds

**dean1st** · 22-04-08

[QUOTE=simonb;390209]

I am concerned with your statement regarding letting your telesales girls loose on data lists as I'm sure you are aware cold calling for mortgage advice is not allowed in the UK. QUOTE]

this depends on how your contacting them. If they have filled out an online enquiry and you've purchased that data, its allowed.

if you call up and do a lifestyle survey and say are you looking for any products in this area and they say i am looking to remortgage or mortgage this is also allowed.

but just phoning up and sayin you need a mortgage or remortgage is illegal

**leadswarehouse** · 22-04-08

Hi Barry,

I agree with as regards to cost reducing which is why I think we should talk. Please call me on 07971100694 to discuss.
Dan Godfrey
leads-warehouse.com

**barrycast** · 22-04-08

Simon/Dean thanks for your input.

I take great care on the compliance side of things - agree with Dean's post - Simon makes an excellent point on scalability - I do not want one person working the phones much less three and I have no desire to run a mini call centre - with all associated headaches. Scability is the issue and that is why we only have two customer facing people. I think this is worth pursuing - of the 300 we fill in each month ony 15-20% meet my requirements of these about 50% agree to an appointment and of these half complete.

Key issue is always getting the right type of customer - I do over qualify potential clients as I don't want to waste their time or mine.

Its the old marketeer Gary Halberts question of if you were opening a hamburger stand and could have any advantage what would you choose..., what advantages would you most like to have on your side to help you win?"

Some people say they would like to have the advantage of having superior meat from which to make their burgers. Others say they want sesame seed buns. Others mention location. Someone usually wants to be able to offer the lowest prices.

And so on.

"The only advantage I want, is a starving crowd"

Its the advantage we all seek !!!

**abc** · 22-04-08

dont even get me started lol..

i had written a small book then decided to delete it..

Good luck Barry

Rick

**Thatch** · 22-04-08

Hi Barry I find myself in the same situation as you, in that as a new start I haven't got the cash to spend on speculative leads that may not come to fruition.

My product is a bankruptcy walk through service. That is those in debt who can't re-mortgage anymore, or don't have property, that can't or don't want to pay for years into DM or IVA's.

I have DM providers who give me their fall out on back end deals and it works well for both of us, as I can pay three times the amount they paid for their DM lead, and it gives them a last pay day they wouldn't otherwise have.

I am very happy to pay well back end for leads that we convert (and we have a very good conversion rate for hot keyed or real time email transfers)

I note a couple of you guys are happy to back end. As my requirements are a little different from others on here perhaps you can give me a call if you think we may be able to do business.

Steve
Bankruptcy365
07837 608220

**bioalien** · 23-04-08

Originally Posted by barrycast

of the 300 we fill in each month ony 15-20% meet my requirements of these about 50% agree to an appointment and of these half complete.

This is exactly the conversion rate I gave you on my first reply above

p.s. nice to see so many Indian call centres ops I mean "new posters" in this thread.

**123debtsolutions** · 23-04-08

There is only one answer....

If you want the very best in online leads then you buy from 123 or AMS... Anyone else and your wasting your time and your staffs.

If you want leads from 123 , I will give you 100% guarantee.

1 : Genuine
2 : Fresh
3 : Exclusive.

If you want apps that convert and clients that are interested in completing an assessment then give me a call.

T : 0808 22 22 123