SEO blinded by the client list

[mibut]

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To tell you the truth kbudden, i am getting bored as well, with people who do not thoroughly read the posts content.
THE only reason I brought up salespeople was from the the first post in this thread,

To be very brutal here, if SEO sales man knew so much about SEO, SEO sales man would not be SEO sales man

Why would I feel threatened or have a chip on my shoulder, I am not a salesperson, I am not involved in SEO except for my own sites which I do myself.
I have not said that all salespeople are perfect, if you read what I have posted it mentions majority and or vast majority.
What I do not like is people stating things as if they are fact and then when asked about them THEY go on the defensive.

[mibut]

from my experience and recent research some affilate managers also need sacking

[jess1]

yeah I agree with that

[mibut]

After you have published your "research" which I presume will be independently verified

[jess1]

errrrrm yes actually...

[mibut]

Can't wait

[jess1]

You know what, I seem to have pissed you off and I have no idea why?
Sorry

[mibut]

Jess, no need to apologise. If you believe what you have said, to be true then you should never apologise.
When someone makes generalisations which tar a group of people with the the same brush, then I get p...... off. I concentrated on one part of your rant but could have done the same with statements such as "I can count on one hand the SEO Agency's out there that can deliver a great ROI "
By making sweeping statements like this you devalue anything of worth that you do have to say.
Just imagine if i had said "To be very brutal here, if affiliate manager man knew so much about affiliate marketing, affiliate manager man would not be affiliate manager".etc etc

[jess1]

"To be very brutal here, if affiliate manager man knew so much about affiliate marketing, affiliate manager man would not be affiliate manager".etc etc

Actually, there are number of affiliate managers or affiliate network players who have stopped what they are doing and gone self employed and are now very brilliant affiliates. Would you agree then, that a good SEO'er or affiliate managers end up working for themselves because the financial rewards are better? I stand by my statement.... if you do SEO for an SEO agency you get a fixed salary, possible bonus. If you are good at what you do, there is surly a greater degree of flexibility plus financial incentives to become self employed or start up their own business.

Does the SEO salesman do the SEO would be one question or is the sales person just do the SEO in theory and then sell the company. I stand by what I say.... If I have generalised, then this is misleading, perhaps I should have differentiated between theory and in practice. Either way you cant escape from the fact that if you know your area of PPC, Affiliate marketing, SEO and you are good in practice.... chances are you would be working for your self.

[mibut]

there are number of affiliate managers or affiliate network players who have stopped

agreed, but when they were affiliate managers would the statement

"To be very brutal here, if affiliate manager man knew so much about affiliate marketing, affiliate manager man would not be affiliate manager".etc etc

have been true according to your way of thinking..

Would you agree then, that a good SEO'er or affiliate managers end up working for themselves because the financial rewards are better

good in any profession quite often end up working for themselves, not just because the financial rewards are better.

[jess1]

Quote:
there are number of affiliate managers or affiliate network players who have stopped

agreed, but when they were affiliate managers would the statement
Quote:
"To be very brutal here, if affiliate manager man knew so much about affiliate marketing, affiliate manager man would not be affiliate manager".etc etc

But is this not answered, when you said you agreed? is this not proof that a good affy managers have jumped over to the other side? How ever this does not mean to say that there are bad affy managers still in their 9-5 (on the contrary) and for a variety of reasons, secure monthly pay cheques issues which will provent them from taking that leap of faith in their own abilities or they have been offered shares in the company they are working for, yes? No?

good in any profession quite often end up working for themselves, not just because the financial rewards are better.

I think this is very true for a number of industries (VSOS for example), but we are talking specifically about SEO, although we now seem to be incorporating affy managers who replaced salespeople and for these particular areas, I would say that the financial factor would be the main crux for leaving a nine-to five job and confidense in their own abilities to produce financial reward for either themslves or for clients, next on the list would be for a lifestyle change. Yes? No?

[mibut]

Jess, I cannot see where you are trying to take this.
Do you not think that good salespeople also "jump the fence"
In the same way that some good salespeople also stay in their jobs for security etc.
You mentioned that you researched this area for a lot of months but all you come up with is generalisations, which brings me back to my original post

Some nice rants but what is your actual point Jess

We seem to be going around in circles so, as I have better things to do with my time, I will leave this thread alone (unless someone posts something with some relevence)

[jess1]

I am staggered by the amount of money merchants are spending on what they deem to be good SEO agencies.

This is what we were discussing. The omission of the word “some” as in some merchants would have been more appropriate.
My mistake…

I have spent a lot of months researching this area and I have to say I am shocked by my findings.

Meaning looking at organic SEO and feedback from my existing and potential clients.

Decisions have been made by merchants purely on client lists and the sales man.

I have not made this up unless you want to call my clients and potential clients and other industry people and some who have posted in this thread... liars.

Probably and with equal relevance

how do the clients of SEO Agency know that they are getting the best ROI for their cash... what do they measure their performance on? If they don’t know about SEO, how do they know the SEO Agent is any good?

I can count on one hand the SEO Agency's out there that can deliver a great ROI

You may run out of hands.
Your beef is that I have included sales people, no where have I generalized…where have I said “all salesmen”.

Compare says

I'm not suprised you're shocked Jess, there are a lot of comboys out there

So indicating that he is already aware of this and to a point agreeing that there some dodgy people out there, even you cant deny that.

Pricethat posts

I know a number of seo companies that work on a commission only basis using subdomains on the merchants site. However this can end up costing the merchant much more as they tend to be very good.

This is good news for a short term solution (positive post)

Another media again a good contribution

Now the discussion is rolling and look to me like it could bring out more interesting posts as people are thinking about this...

And now you join in and your first post is immeditely on the attack

16-01-06, 10:50 PM
mibut
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 504

Quote:
if I don’t know how Search engines work and what it takes to get decent rankings, how can I post

Quote:
I am no SEO expert

A little confusing.
Some nice rants but what is your actual point Jess.
You rant about SEO companies, the salesmen, the marketing teams end all.
Seems to me that you are saying that they are all bad and only you have the answers, even though as you say are not an SEO expert.

And in bold, that’s it right there! So you now continue to use this because in your mind, that's what you think to be the case.

and only you have the answers,

Again... you seem to added something that is not there That your own annoyance with my post has been created by yourself.

Kirsty posts she agrees with me, now this does nothing to alleviate your frustration, in fact it probably adds to it, so a quick snipe back at Kirsty...

Don't whinge, get better salespeople

Kieth replies

Sadly in my experience companies lack of knowledge allows salespeople to lie to them.

No one is backing you up so I can see you are even more frustrated.

When the SEO guru himself backs me up namely Brendon, you tone it down a bit, after all you are now up against a real expert.... instead of sniping at Brendon, you imply, well your points are valid Brendon but Jes and the rests post are not valid

Now Jess and all are bemoaning

Nice little discussion between you Brendon and a few others ensue… back on track.
Kirsty replies and you snipe back. Women huh?

Jess,
As you seem so sure about sales people lying, can i ask what personal experience you have of this

That little ol gremlin chippin away….

Jess, I cannot see where you are trying to take this

Hence my reply now.

Do you not think that good salespeople also "jump the fence" [/QUOTE] And in bold, that’s it right there! So you now continue to use this because in your mind, that's what you think to be the case.

We seem to be going around in circles so, as I have better things to do with my time, I will leave this thread alone(unless someone posts something with some relevence)

Like the windmills in your mind

[globalmedia]

I do see the point having worked at one of the larger SEO companies, for sales and promotion the client list is heavily used and it works. For an SME company being on the same books as lets say Tesco is ego boosting and they can be blinded by this fact, although it will be unlikely you would get the same level of service its all about spend and profit at the end of the day with results a sad third in many cases.

Equally sales are sales and as such do whatever is necessary to complete the order this is the same for all areas and verticals, what I found annoying is that once sales have got the signature on the dotted line they generally wash they hands of the account and all the little extras promised to get the deal start to leak through.

[ian-d]

Oh geez, don't bring this one back from the brink! 16 months old but its back. Ready for round two you guys...come on lol