url question

[cclayton]

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Hi guys,

If I want to maximise the SEO page of my site for say... selling england football shirts and the domain englandfootballshirts.com was taken so I got footballshirtsengland.com would this effect the SEO of people typing in england football shirts if all other data within the page was identical? It just with so many site names being taken I am wondering how much movement I can have on the domain name in regards to SEO.

Thanks! Chris

[channel5]

The domain name has less bearing as an indicator when your ranking is determined than most people realise.

As you say if all other things are equal then the margin between the two domains you mention is negligible.

70% plus of your SERPS will be determined by the number, quality and relevance of your backlinks. Of the 30%ish that is down to onpage then the url pattern is an almost insignificant amount.

For example if you search for "car insurance" on Google of the top 10 results none of the domain names have the word "car" in them and only one has the word "insurance" in it.

[tbp]

The domain name has less bearing as an indicator when your ranking is determined than most people realise.

I`ve found the total opposite of this, if your domain name contains the keywords searched, in the order in which they are typed it gives you a big boost. I have many sites that use this, and are successfull. However, it works best in medium levels of competition, searches with high levels of competition such as "christmas gifts" it doesn't work so well for. Still gives you a boost, but the other factors come into play more.

Consequently, I wouldn't go for footballshirtsengland.com unless you find the phrase "football shirts england" is highly searched. To get the rankings boost you would need to have the keywords arranged in the exact order they are searched for. Its not the be all and end all though, you can still get near to the top, it just means making sure everything else on your site is highly optimised.

[channel5]

if your domain name contains the keywords searched, in the order in which they are typed it gives you a big boost. I have many sites that use this, and are successfull.

For very low volume long tail search terms you can be right.. but take any term like that which you don't rank for and get a couple of external links with the same anchor text as the search and you'll soon outrank the site relying on the domain name.

Domain names as a method of implementing SEO are incredibly overrated.

[cclayton]

Thanks Channel5 and tbp for your response! So we have a bit of a debate on here...

Anyone else have opinions? I am unsure what to do.

[tbp]

Well personally, I have a number of sites which have got to positions 1 - 3 in reasonable competitive fields for international or uk google searches purely from the domain, and having a nicely optimised site - no backlinks!

Mine are relatively new and are PR0's, yet they are beating PR3 sites in the results. (I know PR means little now, but it gives indications to the sites age and size).

[cyates]

The domain name has less bearing as an indicator when your ranking is determined than most people realise.

partially true..

search for recommended loan or recommended loans
recommendedloans.co.uk is #1

only 1 or 2 pages .. not optimised AT ALL


its my site and i havent seo'd it at all

[cyates]

also to further illustrate my point..

a search for west midlands finance ..
west midlands finance - Google Search

my site is #2

although you are correct to some extent.. the domain name does have weight

[channel5]

partially true..

search for recommended loan or recommended loans
recommendedloans.co.uk is #1

only 1 or 2 pages .. not optimised AT ALL


its my site and i havent seo'd it at all

The reason you are ranking for this is that you have 80 backlinks to that domain in forum signatures at Domain Name Forum from Acorn Domains - Domain Names

not the greatest backlinks, but that is what is giving you the majority of the weighting on that one, not your domain name.

[channel5]

also to further illustrate my point..

a search for west midlands finance ..
west midlands finance - Google Search

my site is #2

although you are correct to some extent.. the domain name does have weight

You have multiple links to this site using the anchor text "west midlands finance" such as from this page Loan For Bad Credit Rating - Loan For People With Bad Credit that is where the majority of the weighting for your ranking on that term comes from.

You are looking at this the wrong way round.. you see your site ranking for terms that are in the domain name and *assume* that is the reason for the ranking, which is not exhaustive poof. It's much better to question that fact that most of the killer search terms that drive huge traffic the top spots are very rarely held by a site with the keywords in the domains, this is where you can see clearly that it is something other than the domain name that is ranking those sites at the top (hint - its the anchor text in the backlinks, use the allinanchor command on Google to check).

[cyates]

recommended loans was ranked #1 even before teh forum sig ....

[channel5]

[QUOTE=tbp;354270]I have a number of sites which have got to positions 1 - 3 in reasonable competitive fields for international or uk google searches purely from the domain, and having a nicely optimised site - no backlinks![QUOTE]


You have to have at least 1 backlink (even if its an internal backlink on a previously spidered site) for a page to be spidered.

[channel5]

also to further illustrate my point..

a search for west midlands finance ..
west midlands finance - Google Search

my site is #2

although you are correct to some extent.. the domain name does have weight

and i only just noticed that you are placing backlinks even in your sig on this forum to that site with the anchor text "west midlands finance"

[channel5]

recommended loans was ranked #1 even before teh forum sig ....

maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the key point remains, domain name is a very small part of the determination of your SERPS, and the more backlinks you gain the smaller the level of determination.

Its a very short term plan to chase really small levels of traffic that you gain by basing your first SEO move on the domain name.

To be successful the main things to concentrate on are:

1): Great content, as there is much more for a search engine spider to consume and rank you on in this, and great content attracts backlinks.

2): Gaining backlinks with relevent anchor text.


Why do you think there are so many people selling domain names that are basically long tail search terms that they bought in the hope of great traffic? It's because they drive very little natural traffic and are so niche that it constrains you from the start.

If someone is going to sell England T-shirts then fine as business plan, but why in your name constrain yourself to England shirts from the beginning, it makes expanding into other shirts much more difficult. Give yourself a name that is generic and not constraining and it gives your business much more chance to grow into new areas..

I'll say it again, if you want to rank number one for a long tail niche search term to start with its easy to do without having those keywords in the domain name.. a few backlinks and you've got it, and at the same time you havent painted your business into a small corner.

[tbp]

You have to have at least 1 backlink (even if its an internal backlink on a previously spidered site) for a page to be spidered.

You don't actually, you can add a google sitemap and it will be spidered that way.

However, I do usualy add one link from a site like craigslist or gumtree to speed things up. This is just the site url though, rather than optimised anchor text.

So, ok the sites have 1 backlink, but ordinary a single link would not be worth much at all, and isn't going to take a site right up the rankings.

In the end, its down to people to decide for themselves if what I`m saying is true. I know it is, because its my main strategy for getting traffic, as my main source is through SEO (as in optimized page seo and domain name, rather than backlinks).