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Thread: Residual Income land grab

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    Congratualtions to Natural instincts (the best merchant around at present - no contest) and PaidOnResults (the most progressive and thoughtful network) on launching a residual income program. My first instinct was to move to the new POR program from the existing network, but I have hesitated.

    Of course I want the highest income I can get from a lead/customer delivered via an affiliate program, but is residual income the right approach? What can I do to influence either the ultimate lifetime value of a customer or the merchants ability to sell-on and develop the relationship to the point that it has full value to me?

    Could I be given the option of taking a higher initial bounty rather than rely on the merchant to convert and keep converting? Shouldn't it be the merchant that shoulders the risks (and returns) associated with good quality CRM?

    Question: What can I do as an affiliate to influence the long term quality of a customer? What metrics will merchants produce (and be prepared to share) in the future that will make me prepared to shoulder the risk burden of CRM that is out of my control?

    I will be joining the POR program since it is a better deal - from day one - than the current program. But I wonder what the future holds for residual income?

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    Originally posted by Bob Saver


    Of course I want the highest income I can get from a lead/customer delivered via an affiliate program, but is residual income the right approach?
    Residual income is but a new choice, and in the case of Natural Instinct it's a no brainier, existing program on Paid On Results was 15% and 90 days cookie, as Natural Instinct wanted to offer customer base income at the same commission rate and longer cookie there was no point in running 2 programs (we could have done that no problem, without affiliate having to change current links).

    When the idea was initial talked about, we had discussed all the things that customer base would mean, and it's no secret that many merchants use the approach of high initial commission and low cookies to then keep all the return customers visits full value to themselves, that's the model most are being sold on. And to be honest nothing wrong with that, but for an affiliate it’s just a very short term, give me the money now kind of view.

    Natural Instinct’s customer base program was going to be a choice to run side by side with the standard commission program. The customer base program was going to have a 12% first sale commission and 8% for all return sales, however after Natural Instinct had a good think about it, he would rather work on getting the volume of sales so his costs go down, he can then get the products cheaper and so make more profit as to be honest not loads of profit in giving affiliate 15% of total sale value (that’s price with VAT and giving customer free postage and packing). So really Natural Instinct's basically saying to the affiliates, we want to work with you, we want you to promote us over any other store in our sector and for doing that we want to make sure your rewarded, time and time again.

    What can I do to influence either the ultimate lifetime value of a customer or the merchants ability to sell-on and develop the relationship to the point that it has full value to me?
    You have to look at what the merchant has to offer, with Natural Instinct they offer, competitions, newsletters, when a customer buys something they send in the post along with the order a voucher for 10% off next sale and this voucher has no time limit to when you can spend it. Plus I am sure over time more marketing methods will be developed that will see customer coming back time and time again. Keep in mind that if someone buys something now, they will be on the mailing list for Christmas and Valentines Day next year, the cookie was 30 days and 90 days before and you can't honestly expect most of your user to re-visit them via your links, so your going to earn money from these people during these events. That to me says this merchant wants to build partners.

    Could I be given the option of taking a higher initial bounty rather than rely on the merchant to convert and keep converting? Shouldn't it be the merchant that shoulders the risks (and returns) associated with good quality CRM?
    Yes, however like I have already said it was going to be 15% for standard and 12% for customer base first sale and 8% for return customer, but that was scraped in favour of giving all partners the chance to earn full commission and benefit form future sales, being a new merchant they couldn't exactly supply what percentage of people bought more than once in year 1. I can tell you looking at the stats here it’s amazing to see a couple of affiliate having return sales already, these couple of sales would have been picked up with the cookie as they are both inside the 90 days but what if the cookie was wiped, that be 2 free sales to the merchant but not with customer base it’s not.

    Customer base as I and many other affiliates see it as a truly partner building experience, all the merchants that talk about partnerships really should be taking note before the competition do.

    Question: What can I do as an affiliate to influence the long term quality of a customer?
    Quality of the customer in my books is simple, if they purchase from the merchant then they are already a quality customer, however getting customers that spend more than average will be down to the type of site you have and the kind of promotions you run. To get more money out of your user base you can remind your users of the site by making it easy to get from your site to the merchants site, also prompted them at key buying periods and so on.

    What metrics will merchants produce (and be prepared to share) in the future that will make me prepared to shoulder the risk burden of CRM that is out of my control?
    The merchant can produce what they like and you would have to take their word that it’s true. I would hope as more time passes this information would be getting passed on to the merchants affiliate partners. However at Paid On Results the affiliate is seen as our number one more important commodity and we will shortly be sharing real stats from the affiliate-produced sales only that have gone via our network. No longer will you get fobbed off with our average basket is £120 rubbish, we will show you what the real average basket from the affiliate sales are, what the conversation rate is and will of course have things like EPC and so on. It will be interesting to see how many return sales you get from customers you send to a merchant and this information will be displayed also.

    I will be joining the POR program since it is a better deal - from day one - than the current program. But I wonder what the future holds for residual income?
    Residual Income and Customer Base income are actually 2 very different products. Residual Income normally means your paid monthly, yearly on the renewal of a service already bought, that someone is simply paying to keep using it. Customer base means they don't have to renew something as it's a one time purchase, however the merchant keeps marketing to them to encourage them to shop again, something all merchants do, the only difference with customer base merchants is that each time they make a purchase you get part of the sale.

    You know the other networks will start offering residual and customer base programs for all kinds of merchants at some point, this can only be a good thing for everyone. However it has to be accepted that some times the business model can not afford to pay a high percentage each and every time, so you maybe faced with a choice, do I take higher one time commission or do I take lower commission but get paid every time? On Paid On Results, merchants will be able to offer you this choice and you can swap from Standard to Residual without having to change or update your links in anyway. I don't expect all merchants to be a generous as Natural Instinct to offer up such a high percentage for on going sales, so I would definitely take it up and make as much money as you can from it, so that other merchants get the message that given the choice you rather be part of the business and help them grow the client base then be a one hit wonder who happy to swap links to another merchant at the drop of a hat.

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    Couldn't have put it better myself! (but i'll chuck my 2 pennies in anyway)

    Basically we had 2 choices....

    1) offer a lower commission and increase our profit margin on each product sold.

    2) keep the 15%, give lifetime commission and aim to be the best affiliate programme in our sector.

    I'm certain that we have made the right decision because the more sales we get and the more people on our mailing list at christmas/valentines the better. Going for volume of sales over profit on each item will mean more brand awareness and ultimately exponential growth.

    Or to put it another way...1/2 the profit on each item X 4 times as many sales means double the profit and more happy affiliates

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    Did I mention that PaidOnResults in the number one network at present? Superb response - thank you.

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    I don't mean to be rude but shouldn't this be moved to the p.o.r. section?

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    Originally posted by getvisible
    I don't mean to be rude but shouldn't this be moved to the p.o.r. section?
    Why, he is asking a question about what impact residual income will have on affiliate marketing as a whole. Paid On Results just happens to be the only network to offer it right now.
    Clarke - On Twitter @ClarkeDuncan

    Check out my Blog at www.affiliatemarketingblog.co.uk

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    fair enough Supercod but I agree with get visible, we had our franking machines post removed and that applied to ALL affiliates.

    I wish them the best of luck and I think some of their strategies are genuinely in the interest of affiliates, but I still think we should be fair and have it in the POR forum. MHO

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    getvisible's Avatar
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    I know you're trying to build up your network but I don't want every thread turning into an advertorial for P.O.R.

    Probably other's will disagree and I agree with what you're doing, but some breathing space may be good.

    I've got nothing against you - I just a subtler approach would be better.

    Just my opinion - do anyother networks have moderator rights on this board?

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    No problem I will move it to the POR forum because I don't actually care it's just a post at the end of the day.

    Also please note that Bob is an affiliate and is not a member of staff at Paid On Results or a Merchant at Paid On Results so I don't see this as being an advert.
    Clarke - On Twitter @ClarkeDuncan

    Check out my Blog at www.affiliatemarketingblog.co.uk

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    Matthew Wood's Avatar
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    Unsure what the problem is here, it was a question asked by a forum member which happens to involve POR. The actual question by Bob Saver was a broad, and really important one.

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    Originally posted by getvisible
    Just my opinion - do anyother networks have moderator rights on this board?
    No but a Merchant of Affiliate Future is a Moderator, also I have never once abused my position, if I did Matt would remove my Mod rights.
    Clarke - On Twitter @ClarkeDuncan

    Check out my Blog at www.affiliatemarketingblog.co.uk

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    buy.at

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    Just my two peneth worth.

    I am no angel when it comes to trying to attract people to our network through the medium of this board and occasionally have a post or two moved so I say this from that perspective i.e not from any higher moral ground.

    Most of us here know each other - some quite well and we dont want the board to turn into a place where people want to take their ball home :-)

    The Franking machine post was relevant to all but was a call to action to switch links to Aff Future.

    This post was made by an affiliate not a network and certainly not by Clarke. The post is a more generic one singeling out a merchant and network as they are the only ones who do what the post was about. I dont see this as a direct plug - the plug is just a nice side effect for Clarke - like an affiliate saying what there EPC is for Britannia for instance and that rubbing off on us in a good way.

    In this sense the two posts were v different and so cant be compared.

    Take my post on Accucard which was much more similar to the franking machine post and rightly was moved to our forum - no complaints there from us as it was not really the right place for it although the sentiment was likely the same as Aff Futures post on the Franking machines.

    I hope this is not a bandwagon that has much life as it will be a shame if all the new posts are about the relevance of other posts -

    I have been in this forum for 16 months now and only recently has this kind of thing become a priority I hope it doesnt escalate

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    getvisible's Avatar
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    being fair and being seen to be fair are two different things.

    yes a merchant on AF is mod, is it important that merchant is on AF or TD, CJ or any? Nope.

    If this is an POR V. AF thing then I don't want to get involved!

    Perhaps we should get other networks to respond to more messages so that every thread has a response from every network?

    Just as with my services I don't say to people they should use me, I just hope that can see from my natural postings I know about SEO - I don't feel I need to provide a case in the majority of my postings.

    Yes you and Matt are good friends, but I don't want this board to turn into the DMOZ of the affiliate world.

    Lee

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    No doubt I am about to become the most unpopular person on this board. However I do feel there soometimes can be one rule for some people and another for others.

    Now if the affiliates on the other networks did not know that they could earn more on AF as of from September then they would be losing out - yes it is promoting AF but it also genuinely helping those affiliates that promote Pitney Bowes.

    Yes Perfiliate you have had much more blatantly self promoting posts and got away with it. End of that story!

    Remember - I am just an ant at Affiliate Future, I don't own it and apart from keeping my job there is no need for me to be overly bias towards it. I think what POR is doing is really excellent for affiliates and I have no qualms stating that and if you read my posts you will see I am fairly impartial and try to be as honest as I can when I do promote AF.

    My problem was that Matt seemed happy to let threads by certain people in the past go, but moved mine within minutes of me posting it, while I actually thought that the coup we have achieved with Pitney Bowes was actually news for everyone, not just AF affiliates.
    Last edited by Luke; 02-09-03 at 11:45 PM.

  15. #15
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    This all seems a little bit pointless.

    1. If a Network has an important announcement it should perhaps appear globally and in their own section.

    2. If a Network starts a discussion point about their network then it should appear in their own section.

    3. If an affiliate starts a general discussion about affiliate marketing, pertaining or not to a specific network, post it in the lounge.

    4. If an affiliate starts a specific discussion about a network, post it in a network section.

    Right, now everyone back to work!

    Jason

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