Phone4U & Direct Mobile Phones Reversal Rates

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 19-04-05

How are others finding reversals for this program?

From £1545 earned in commission £1465.00 was reversed thats a 95% reversal rate, this was for the month of February. We are yet to check other months and will report back accordingly, but it look approximately 80% for January.

Also for February

Hawkshead @ 30%

Shoe-Shop like when it was on CJ has a high reversal rate of @ 50%

Direct Mobile Phones @ 75%

Dixons @ 30%

In January

Direct Mobile Phones @ 100%
32 Red Casino 100%
Phones 4u @ 80%
Boden - High
Hawkshead @ 50%

**WillD** · 19-04-05

A thought about high reversals from fashion retailers:

I know that Boden pay on net sales, and I think that Hawkshead do as well. For Fashion retailers it is not unusual to have a returns rate of 30% Menswear tends to be in the 20’s, Kids lower (8 – 12% they’ll grow into it! lol) and Womenswear can be as high as 50% I have seen returns rates as high as 70% for some of the big books.

This would explain the high reversals you see from these programs, although Bodens AOV is high so £ per sale is still good. (Don’t know about Hawkshead)

As a fashion retailer returns are a problem, if you make a sale for £100 and get £20 returned do you really want to pay commission on the £20?

Figleaves have built the returns calculation into the commission we offer, i.e. we pay on Gross sales before returns, keeps things simple, but doesn’t mean that net sales commission is wrong, just different, you just need to remember to take returns in to account.

Will

**KieronD** · 19-04-05

Paul, you've inspired my blog today, along with the news that I have a reversal rate of just over 60% for a mobile merchant.

Maybe the way forward is to only promote mobile merchants who pay per app?

Kieron

**stevesa** · 19-04-05

For a mobile phone co to have a 60% reversal rate is a bit strange to say the least.

I have just done the Mobileshop March validations on DGM and we had a 60+% pass rate

Steve

**Dynamoo** · 19-04-05

A 40%-60% reversal rate is pretty typical (note that I didn't say "good") with mobile phone merchants.

Checking the conversion rate on DMP shows that it's a miserable 0.07% at the moment - so it looks like there's something odd going on. Sounds like a candidate for switching to Kelkoo.

**TJ.** · 22-04-05

Its interesting to see a number of your comments here about order failure rates.

I'm very sympathetic to the difficulties it can cause both from an earnings and a planning perspective.

I'm glad to see our conversion rate is much better than most of the rates quoted here. But I'm also not complacent as I'd like to see our conversion rate better than the best mobile phone conversion rates quoted here. This is why we're investing our online resource in improving conversion and reducing reversals.

Generally for mobile phones the problem for reversals isn't so much returns but problems with credit checks or other payment details.

Hi Kieron, regarding your point do you feel you'd be happy to promote a mobile phone retailer that offered a lower commission rate but based it on Applications rather than completed transactions?

PS What's the name of your blog?

**KieronD** · 22-04-05

Originally posted by TJ.
Hi Kieron, regarding your point do you feel you'd be happy to promote a mobile phone retailer that offered a lower commission rate but based it on Applications rather than completed transactions?

PS What's the name of your blog?

Hi Tim, good to hear from you.

From my point of view, yes I would prefer to work on a price per app basis. There are already a few mobile merchants offering this and it is these who I will be promoting going forward. I appreciate that the CPA will be lower and as long as it is in line with the existing CPA's per application that are on the market then I see no problem.

Blog is in my sig.

Cheers!!

**Dynamoo** · 22-04-05

Yes, I prefer a prefer a per-valid-lead approach myself too. Of course, you can still get reversals on that if the lead is in some way fraudulent.. and there's a LOT of fraud about.

I guess one difference is in screening - if the merchant can in some way screen out the problem applicants at an early stage then it helps to reduce the reversal rate.

The having been said.. it makes more sense if you take all the traffic and turn it into average earnings-per-click. That really makes the poor performers stand out.

**TJ.** · 22-04-05

I agree Dynamoo screening out as many problem applicants as possible, at as early a stage as possible, is clearly of benefit to Publishers and Advertisers.

I tend to prefer trying to resolve the problems that cause reversals rather than moving to paying on a per application basis, although I've certainly considered paying on a per application basis.

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 13-06-05

We are still awaiting a reply with regard for Phones4U high reversal rate.

**Paul Wright** · 13-06-05

Hi Guys,

Couldn’t agree with you more on this one. I recall running a competitors report a while back focused on the mobile sector and the levels of reversals on 65%+ off all the affiliate programs were absolutely shocking. QGJ – to get 95% on that sort of volume is just insane, something’s very wrong for sure and I’d be just as interested as you to know why it would be that high. (please do tell)

I know a few here are already promoting the T-Mobile program, so thanks for the continued work. (and keep the feedback coming)

For those who haven’t joined up yet and have simply had enough of these stupidly high reversal rates you may be interested to know that T-Mobile have adopted the pay per lead model as mentioned by a few in this thread. The T-Mobile program is running on the Buy.at network. I’ll be at hand to personally help you to get set up, assist with any t-mobile issues you may have in the future and of course help you to drive those sales.

Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions.

Cheers
Paul.

**Neilandr** · 06-07-05

I find reversal rates for these quite high too - and questionable. I now for certain that some reversals are invalid and have been chasing one in particular with Tradedoubler since September 2004!

**TD Nick** · 12-07-05

Dear Affiliates,

Topic: Phones4u High Reversal Rates

There have been some posts in regard to high % reversals within the mobile phone industry. Phones4u would like to clarify any misunderstandings

The standard online reversal rate currently stands between 55-70%. With the standard industry “14 day” returns policy, quite a large number of products get returned. Credit checks, increased competition & consumer choice all play a huge part in high % reversals

Phones4u would like to assure you that we take every measure to ensure that each return is genuine and valid. If you have any questions, or queries please do not hesitate to email my colleague at TradeDoubler on antony.philippou@tradedoubler,com

Please be assured that Phones4u is constantly looking to improve its service to its valued affiliates. If you have any comments or feedback please emails my colleague Antony, who will happily respond to all questions and queries.

Don’t forget make just 15 sales and you will get a £30.00 cash bonus (On top of your normal commission of course)

Many Kind Regards

Phones4u Affiliate Team

**Qui Gon Jinn** · 30-08-05

It is disappointing that it took three months to get a response on what is still an extremely poor program & suggest the merchant looks at an alternative commission structure or re-examines their program altogether.

**Paul Wright** · 30-08-05

"The standard online reversal rate currently stands between 55-70%"

Not sure where these "standards" come from but this is very high in my oppinion. I can only assume that stores offering multiple networks (phones4u etc) have a significantly higher reversal rate than individual networks.