worst terms i have ever seen in a affiliate network

[5meodmt]

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8.5 If an affiliate (partially) violates the provisions of Clause 3.15, the affiliate will, without further warning or notice of default and without the need for judicial intervention, pay TradeTracker an immediately payable penalty of € 50,000/- (Fifty Thousand Euros), without prejudice to TradeTracker's other rights, such as the right to terminate the agreement or claim damage compensation.




u must be f..ing kidding me

[MollyHunter]

Pretty pointless post without posting Clause 3.15.... no?

[5meodmt]

here u go


3.15 The affiliate may not in any manner, contribute to creating artificial traffic to the linked websites. The affiliate must immediately notify TradeTracker of all known or suspected improper or wrong use of the affiliate's links to the TradeTracker website and/or an Affiliate Program, in any manner whatsoever.

[MollyHunter]

Seem's fair enough to me, only people who are going to have issue with it are people who plan to try and send automated / artificial traffic. The network obviously doesn't want such people on their campaign and hence puts in a clause to deter people, I'm guessing it will work too.

Saying that, they'd have to put together an extremely strong case with full proof of someone breaking the clause in order to collect on it.

[5meodmt]

i think its unreasonable... to be fined that much and for something as broad as artifical traffic... in reality they could apply that to any blackhat activities. its bad enough getting kicked off a network for doing blackhat stuff and the network just keeping ur commission but with the added trauma of a big big fine... thats just over the top

[Graham_T]

Hello 5MeODMT,

This clause which you would have agreed to when you joined the network is indeed there, as MollyHunter has stated to protect our advertisers from affiliates who try to drive automated or artificial traffic to their sites. In the case that you inadvertently send us this kind of traffic, the clause states that you should simply notify TradeTracker.

Please feel free to call me on 0203 11 66 523 if you have further concerns.

Regards,

Graham Taylor
Account Manager
TradeTracker UK
0203 11 66 523

[Spartacus]

Hi Graham Taylor.

How many " € 50,000/- (Fifty Thousand Euros)" have you trousered?

Hi All

How many terms and conditions do you read?

mmmmm

[Graham_T]

Hi Spartacus,

As far as I know none yet.

We'd love to have you on board as an affiliate though - you can register at Register -TradeTracker and you'll receive £10 towards your Tradetracker balance...

Thanks,
Graham

[Oscar_Riera]

in reality they could apply that to any blackhat activities. its bad enough getting kicked off a network for doing blackhat stuff

It's bad enough getting kicked for doing blackhat stuff? So we have a contract, you try to cheat me to get my money and the only thing you expect is to be "kicked out of a network", so you can no longer cheat other advertisers?

Let's do serious business. Networks (and in fact nowhere) are not the place for you to make some easy money. This is business. And if you break the rules, you should be fined in some way (which doesn't mean I agree neither I am against the 50k fine).

Artificial traffic (but not only this) can cause serious problems to a merchant. I've seen spikes of traffic due to this that made the server slowdown to the point where no one was able to buy (and no, not everyone needs to be ready for a 50K visits spike in just 1 hour). And that caused a big loss of revenue.

Blackhat affiliates are really hurting the business and other honest affiliates (the majority), and one of the problems is because the only penalization they get is to be "kicked from the network". Not fair enough when sometimes some of them had already been paid a few thousands.

I'm all for all for affiliates, but good ones, who really understand the business and like earning their money abiding to the rules.

I'm happy to work hard with affiliates who want to earn money and will do my best to help them, but if your bigger concern is to be caught cheating and get kicked out of a network...

[5meodmt]

you say "Blackhat affiliates are really hurting the business" which i agree to some extent... but blackhat affiliates i believe play significant role in making affilaite networks improve their networks and technology in detecting blackhat activities... if you didnt have blackhat trying their luck and pushing their own boundaries then there would be no reason for networks to improve either.

[flashandy]

I have to ask 5meodmt, is there a point to this continued rant? If our terms are not to your liking then please refrain from working with Tradetracker.

We welcome Affiliate feedback and constructive criticism, we even welcome affiliates from various sectors of our great community but this continued discussion re: Blackhat activities is going nowhere.

If you would like a more constructive conversation please feel free to contact me.

Andy

[cc976a]

Reading the clause i'd be fearful. Not because I've ever endorsed or been part of black hat activities, but because this type of manipulation doesn't necessarily always have to come from the user......it could be a devious competitor in an attempt to get you banned or even worse fined.

I'm sure the recovery of the said €50k would be an ordeal and one which would need to be proved beyond reason in the courts, but having a potential fine hanging over a good affiliate when the 'crime' is not always in his/her control can be a daunting prospect.

Businesses have to protect their interests and I can see the clause is meant as a deterrent, but it is still a grey area in terms of responsibility, control and evidence to convict (and whether that evidence, because difficult to obtain, could potentially be circumstantial)

Perhaps this is the view of the o/p and the rant...?

[lauriebred]

As an old established affiliate - by old I really mean old - I'm always looking for new products I can market. I found one, saw it was handled by a merchant that I'm not familiar with, and naturally came to Aff4U to check them out - and this thread was the first thing I saw.

Frankly black hat affiliates who mess around sending bogus traffic are not only a PITA but are criminals who should be treated as such. I would fully support any merchant who called in the law when they suspected fraud, they would be doing us all a favour.

There is as much chance of my trying to defraud a merchant as walking to the moon pushing a tea trolley. Nevertheless that particular clause stopped me in my tracks. I've never seen anything like it before in my 13 years of doing business online and frankly I'm very uneasy about it. Would I sign such a contract? Probably not. I intended to get in touch for a chat, but I'll sit on it for a while and see what other comments surface about Tradetracker.

Since this has been brought to our attention a lot of good reliable affiliates will probably have the same feelings as me and they may lose a lot of business as a result. Just my honest opinion.

[lauriebred]

you say "Blackhat affiliates are really hurting the business" which i agree to some extent... but blackhat affiliates i believe play significant role in making affilaite networks improve their networks and technology in detecting blackhat activities... if you didnt have blackhat trying their luck and pushing their own boundaries then there would be no reason for networks to improve either.

What? Are you serious?

[Graham_T]

Hi lauriebred,

Since no one else has raised further points I thought it'd be worthwhile to give everyone further comment from TradeTracker.

Obviously, we could use the same argument here, as when talking about any kind of deterrent in any walk of life, which is that if you're not doing anything wrong, then you've got nothing to worry about. It does seem that people are concerned about the hypothetical situation where your site is hijacked or you inadvertently fall foul of this clause in some other way however.

I'd like to reassure everyone that TradeTracker will always investigate each individual case of fraud thoroughly and look at the circumstances before looking to enforce this fine. If you're targeted by hackers or your site is hijacked, then we would simply be able to remove the clicks from your account.

This fine would only be used in very worst case scenario where purposely fraudulent behaviour has taken place, and which has resulted in a loss of income to Tradetracker, for example if an advertiser chooses to leave our network as a result of such behaviour.

lauriebred, you may well be right in saying that other networks don't utilise such deterrents, which is just another reason why TradeTracker are positively different to the same old bunch of networks in the UK, and indeed worldwide.

This particular clause reflects the fact that whilst experienced, TradeTracker are a fresh and forward thinking company, that has adapted to how the affiliate industry is now, and not 10 years ago (when most other established affiliate network's terms were written -and haven't been significantly modified since).

When you register with TradeTracker you will notice that it is because we are a relatively new network, that we have been able to create our system from scratch to offer efficient and intuitive software which enables us to be a modern network, unlike many of our competitors who have had to re-invent or modify their legacy software.

A clause such as the one here serves to protect the network, and therefore our honest and genuine business partners (read affiliates) from those that try to de-fraud us and our merchants.

We're always looking to talk with new and existing affiliates, so if anyone would like to talk, please call me on 0203 11 66 523

Kind Regards,
Graham Taylor
Account Manager
TradeTracker UK
0203 11 66523